Land of Lincoln: Adventures in Abe's America
This chat took place in the Civil War Home Chatroom on 07/20/08 and covered Chapters 9 & 10.
7/20/2008 9:07 pm (et) Basecat: Welcome to the final chat on Andrew Ferguson's book Land of Lincoln: Adventures in Abe's America. Reminder, please refrain from using the IM feature during the chat. Mobile mentioned he had something to post from CWbksell, so that sounds like an appropriate place to start.7/20/2008 9:08 pm (et) mobile_96: Actually, I started to read the book last year when it first came out but never got past the second chapter. I had enough of that garbage from DiLorenzo a few years ago when I forced myself to read his book. I hoped to try to understand where these misguided southerners were coming from. I could not believe anyone could be so wrong and andhateful of Lincoln. I just didn't care to go through that again. So, with the group, I picked up with chapter three and went from there.
7/20/2008 9:09 pm (et) mobile_96: I believe the author tried his best to present various viewpoints and brought some things to light that I was not aware of. The fact that the Lincoln Trail was started to sell more gas was a big letdown. Of course, the Lincoln birth cabin being nothing but "Symbolic" took a close second place. But, what upset me the most was the Chicago Historical Society's exchange of displays from the Lincoln' death bed, table for Appomattox, and front door to Libby Prison for a display of teen life in the 70s.7/20/2008 9:09 pm (et) mobile_96: That's all for right now. Covers previous chapters.
7/20/2008 9:10 pm (et) Susansweet: Good points7/20/2008 9:10 pm (et) Babs: Actually, the Lincoln cabin is a current chapter.
7/20/2008 9:11 pm (et) ks: I kind of like that. ;) We helped him face information he couldn't stomach on his own previously. ;) Kind of a CW support group, huh? ;)7/20/2008 9:11 pm (et) mobile_96: too true LOL
7/20/2008 9:11 pm (et) Susansweet: True but it is the first chapter for tonight so fits.7/20/2008 9:11 pm (et) Babs: I agree that many point made in the book were discouraging.
7/20/2008 9:11 pm (et) mobile_96: That's what we're here for KS7/20/2008 9:12 pm (et) Susansweet: We are a book group that actually reads the books.
7/20/2008 9:12 pm (et) Basecat: Thanks Mobile. Let's start on Chapter 9...A Whole Lotta Lincoln. Am curious, but has anyone in here get the chance to see the Abe musical in Indiana?7/20/2008 9:12 pm (et) mobile_96: And better yet, not afraid to actually discuss them.
7/20/2008 9:12 pm (et) ks: I, too, would agree with the statement that the book contained discouraging or disillusion inducing material. But there were some bright points as well.7/20/2008 9:12 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I felt the same way reading the book. I guess we all want everyone to feel the same way we do about historic things. Sometimes I think we have people in decision-making positions who have no passion for their profession and I think some of these committees making the decisiions at places like the Chicago site are among them.
7/20/2008 9:12 pm (et) Babs: Others don't?7/20/2008 9:12 pm (et) mobile_96: Never heard of it, until today
7/20/2008 9:12 pm (et) Susansweet: I hadn't but was wishing I did.7/20/2008 9:13 pm (et) Susansweet: Nope they meet but don't actually read the books apparently.
7/20/2008 9:13 pm (et) mobile_96: Sounded like it would be worth a trip to see the Show7/20/2008 9:13 pm (et) ks: Never heard of it until this book, Steve.
7/20/2008 9:13 pm (et) Susansweet: Sure did Mobile7/20/2008 9:13 pm (et) Babs: Why bother?
7/20/2008 9:14 pm (et) Susansweet: Socialize, get a night out.7/20/2008 9:14 pm (et) Babs: Why bother was about the book groups not the play.
7/20/2008 9:14 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I've heard of it, but was under the impression that it was no longer playing.7/20/2008 9:14 pm (et) Susansweet: That is what the books says Fan.
7/20/2008 9:14 pm (et) Basecat: Tis a shame, as I know all of us would have enjoyed it. Really was disappointed to read that because of funding, it was stopped.7/20/2008 9:15 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Is it still playing somewhere?
7/20/2008 9:15 pm (et) mobile_96: Probably not enough visitors to even come close to helping pay for itself.7/20/2008 9:15 pm (et) Basecat: And I say this as at an early muster those who attended saw a CW play at Ford's Theater in DC, and remains a fave memory of mine.
7/20/2008 9:15 pm (et) Susansweet: I like to go to the regional summer plays like that . I saw Shepard of the Hills in Branson when I was there a few years ago7/20/2008 9:15 pm (et) mobile_96: Fan, no
7/20/2008 9:15 pm (et) Basecat: LF...Not that I know of.7/20/2008 9:16 pm (et) mobile_96: And as we all know, the Ft Wayne Lincoln Museum is closed already
7/20/2008 9:17 pm (et) ks: The play we saw pre-Manassas muster is still being done here and there across the country. REUNION7/20/2008 9:17 pm (et) Basecat: Mobile...which stinks, and yet another cost cutting move.
7/20/2008 9:17 pm (et) Susansweet: I actually have an album by Billy Ed Wheeler the guy that wrote the play.7/20/2008 9:19 pm (et) Basecat: My next question would be if any have stopped at Mary's home in Lexington??
7/20/2008 9:19 pm (et) mobile_96: I haven't.7/20/2008 9:20 pm (et) Basecat: My fave line of that description was uttered by the author's son...What's with the bannisters to paraphrase.:)
7/20/2008 9:20 pm (et) Susansweet: Never been in Kentucky.7/20/2008 9:20 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I didn't know it existed, but would like to see it sometime.
7/20/2008 9:21 pm (et) Vickie: Never been to that part of KY.7/20/2008 9:21 pm (et) Susansweet: I loved the story about the couple going to visit when it was used as a house of ill repute
7/20/2008 9:21 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I've been to Kentucky as a child. I remember stopping on a bluff with my Dad and reading a sign that said Nancy Hanks was born on the other side of the mountain, but that's as far as I got.7/20/2008 9:21 pm (et) Babs: I enjoyed the various comments by the kids. One day they will dragging their kids around and telling them stories about quirky dad.
7/20/2008 9:21 pm (et) ks: Yes, I've stopped there (in Lexington), but unfortunately it wasn't to visit Mary's home. BTW Steve...am I dreaming, or did you at one time admit to a fondness of Florence Henderson? ;) I chuckled at comments by author concerning Hoosiers that no self-respecting state would want to claim (Hoffa and Michael Jackson), but then was surprised by Florence Henderson. :)7/20/2008 9:22 pm (et) ks: Same thing at Mount Vernon in terms of staircase bannister IIRC.
7/20/2008 9:22 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Yes, Susan and I loved the author's wife's comment as they left the house.7/20/2008 9:22 pm (et) Basecat: Susan...:)
7/20/2008 9:22 pm (et) Basecat: Pat...Not me...you must be thinking of Greg Brady.:)7/20/2008 9:22 pm (et) mobile_96: cwbksell says: The best part of chapter 9 was the author's wife comment about what the curator of the Mary Lincoln childhood home in Lexington, Kentucky said after it had been saved from ill repute, that "No sir, we won't sell that kind of book in an old whore house."
7/20/2008 9:23 pm (et) ks: You had a fondness for Greg Brady? I am SO confused. ;) LOL7/20/2008 9:23 pm (et) Babs: Not that there's anything wrong with that.
7/20/2008 9:24 pm (et) Basecat: Many historians I know tend to agree that is the reason why they did finally get married...7/20/2008 9:24 pm (et) Susansweet: That was a great comment.
7/20/2008 9:24 pm (et) Babs: Seems like that was mentioned in some book we read here.7/20/2008 9:26 pm (et) Basecat: BTW...Been to Lexington a couple of times myself....Battlefields were my top priority when I went to the APCWS conference out there, and other time was to see The Police.
7/20/2008 9:26 pm (et) Susansweet: Was mentioned in this book as the reason they wouldn't sell THAT book in Mary's house7/20/2008 9:26 pm (et) Babs: Who bailed you out that time?
7/20/2008 9:27 pm (et) Susansweet: Babs you will have to be in charge of Bail Money for Springfield7/20/2008 9:27 pm (et) Basecat: No one...:)
7/20/2008 9:27 pm (et) ks: Babs, yes, it does. The information wasn't new to me and I couldn't recall where I'd read previously.7/20/2008 9:27 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: The marriage license was found but a date wasn't mentioned. At any rate, why can't the people who run the Mary Todd house deal with a little controversy? Mary is controversial and that can't be denied.
7/20/2008 9:27 pm (et) mobile_96: Have to Protect their Icon.7/20/2008 9:28 pm (et) Basecat: LF...I agree...and sorta weird censorship IMHO.
7/20/2008 9:28 pm (et) mobile_96: Bury your heads and pretend it never happened.7/20/2008 9:28 pm (et) Babs: Interesting that the to honor Mary they seemed to have to be disloyal to Abe.
7/20/2008 9:28 pm (et) Susansweet: I ran into that attitude in several little places in the South.7/20/2008 9:29 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: But that would be like showing Richard Nixon's house but refusing any reference to Watergate (not picking on anyone, just an example).
7/20/2008 9:29 pm (et) Susansweet: Bury head about certain subjects.7/20/2008 9:29 pm (et) Basecat: Other thing I found interesting...Urban renewal of Lexington, and they came up with lots of parking lots??
7/20/2008 9:29 pm (et) Babs: Mobile, THOSE sorts of things NEVER happened back then.7/20/2008 9:29 pm (et) Susansweet: Believe the Nixon Library does cover it
7/20/2008 9:29 pm (et) mobile_96: Sounds hypocritical to me.7/20/2008 9:29 pm (et) Basecat: LF...I agree 100%.
7/20/2008 9:30 pm (et) Basecat: Kinda wish we had a Hoosier in here as well..so I could ask them if the author's comment about the state is accurate.7/20/2008 9:31 pm (et) mobile_96: Base, sounds about normal to me, need them parking spots when the humugus crowds decend on your Creation.
7/20/2008 9:31 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: About that statue of Lincoln's first speech. Don't you think Nancy Lingerie would have the decency to move down a few stores.7/20/2008 9:32 pm (et) Babs: Or change the name to Nancy Hankies.
7/20/2008 9:33 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Oh, I love it, Babs!!!!7/20/2008 9:34 pm (et) ks: LOL
7/20/2008 9:35 pm (et) Basecat: Had no clue about the Knob Creek site either...and that it in effect is closed for the most part.7/20/2008 9:36 pm (et) ks: Odd thing, found it particularly interesting that neither James G. Randall nor Mary Painter Randall could drive. Imagining a student driving them around as they researched was an unexpected tidbit to add to my impressions of both.
7/20/2008 9:37 pm (et) mobile_96: Kinda stunned me for a moment KS.7/20/2008 9:38 pm (et) Basecat: Did not surprise me...my Aunt and both grandmothers never learned to drive, and seems like I have been a chauffeur since I first got my driver's license.
7/20/2008 9:39 pm (et) ks: But your aunt and grandmothers weren't noted scholars and authors, were they? :)7/20/2008 9:39 pm (et) mobile_96: My mom never learned to drive.
7/20/2008 9:39 pm (et) ks: The thought of them traveling for research and always having to do so with a chauffeur is what I found surprising.7/20/2008 9:40 pm (et) Basecat: No, but they were Icons.:)
7/20/2008 9:40 pm (et) Babs: But Skylark is and she doesn't drive, neither does Sarah Vowel.7/20/2008 9:40 pm (et) Susansweet: Oh that's right Sarah Vowel always gets someone to drive her around to see what she wants to see
7/20/2008 9:40 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I hate to say it, but I was 27 when I got my license. But ks has a point, I wasn't traveling for research.7/20/2008 9:41 pm (et) ks: It's a different world now though, Babs. So much research can be done electronically.
7/20/2008 9:41 pm (et) Babs: When was Randall doing research? Wasn't it a time when everyone didn't drive.?7/20/2008 9:42 pm (et) Basecat: My last on this chapter is if any have been to the Birthsite, and if so..your impressions on the "Temple"??
7/20/2008 9:43 pm (et) Babs: It was also a different world in that many people didn't have to drive for their day to day activities,7/20/2008 9:43 pm (et) ks: Don't know if it was or wasn't, Babs. The RP Randall book I have has a 1953 copyright.
7/20/2008 9:43 pm (et) Susansweet: Didn't realize the cabin was in such a temple.7/20/2008 9:43 pm (et) Babs: A bit later than I thought.
7/20/2008 9:43 pm (et) Susansweet: So he was working in the 40's . Many people didn't drive then.7/20/2008 9:44 pm (et) Basecat: Susan...Same here, and was surprised to read that...seems so different to what Abe represented.
7/20/2008 9:44 pm (et) Babs: Interesting that the temple's dimensions were more important than the cabin's7/20/2008 9:44 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: You know the author comes off as cynical about making money on history, but that's all the history some people get and that's not a bad thing.
7/20/2008 9:44 pm (et) Susansweet: Easy to get a graduate student who needed extra money to drive for them.7/20/2008 9:44 pm (et) mobile_96: 1st, wasn't very happy when they said the Cabin had been cut down for resize, but then finding it wasn't the real one, floored me.
7/20/2008 9:45 pm (et) Susansweet: Really surprised me that the cabin was cut down to size.7/20/2008 9:45 pm (et) Susansweet: Knew it may not be the real one . Seems I have read that somewhere before.
7/20/2008 9:45 pm (et) Basecat: Same here Mobile..on both parts..and for a NPS Ranger to call it symbolic...shuddered when I read that.7/20/2008 9:46 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: The reason the cabin was cut down was what surprised me. The temple's design was so much more important?
7/20/2008 9:46 pm (et) Susansweet: Amazes me how they tore things down and took them to fairs and then they were lost to history. Libby Prison and Mclean original house.7/20/2008 9:46 pm (et) Basecat: And how about no one even knowing what happened to the supposed Davis birth cabin as well. Hope when we start to read Cooper's book on Jeff we can get an answer to that as well.
7/20/2008 9:47 pm (et) Susansweet: I wasn't too happy with the term symbolic either7/20/2008 9:47 pm (et) Vickie: It bothered me that they cut it down to size until I read about it being a fake then I didn't care so much that it was cut down to size.
7/20/2008 9:47 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I'll bet we won't Base.7/20/2008 9:47 pm (et) Susansweet: But it does make a difference when people visit now and say wow it's really small when it wasn't that small.
7/20/2008 9:48 pm (et) Susansweet: Even if it isn't the right cabin.7/20/2008 9:48 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I wonder what Lincoln would say if he could visit the site.
7/20/2008 9:48 pm (et) mobile_96: Wonder if they even note that the cabin had been cut down?7/20/2008 9:49 pm (et) Vickie: And why bother building such a temple for a fake.
7/20/2008 9:49 pm (et) mobile_96: Too many stairs??7/20/2008 9:50 pm (et) Basecat: Thing I thought of...and know my folks talk about World Fairs here in NYC area when they were growing up...wonder if they even have World Fair's anymore.
7/20/2008 9:50 pm (et) mobile_96: Was already installed when they found it to be a fake.7/20/2008 9:50 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Well, I don't think they knew it was a fake at the time. Hey, maybe we can get the people from Chicago to come in and put something totally irrelevant in there.
7/20/2008 9:50 pm (et) mobile_96: Think they are called Trade Fairs today.7/20/2008 9:50 pm (et) Babs: Only recently shown to be a fake on "History's Mysteries".
7/20/2008 9:51 pm (et) Susansweet: Haven't heard of them in years. I went to the Seattle's World Fair and my parents went to Hemisfair in Houston7/20/2008 9:51 pm (et) ks: Coy, you still here? Have a question for you if you are. And it's even relevant to the chat. :)
7/20/2008 9:51 pm (et) Susansweet: That was in the 70's7/20/2008 9:52 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I want to the Knoxville World's Fair, I think in the early eighties. It was more like a large county fair.
7/20/2008 9:52 pm (et) Coy: Yes, I'm still here.....Hope everyone is well..7/20/2008 9:52 pm (et) Vickie: anyway the temple just sounds like someone had to much money and to much time on their hands;-)
7/20/2008 9:53 pm (et) mobile_96: Trying to create a big draw to the site I'd expect7/20/2008 9:53 pm (et) Babs: The Knoxville one is the last one I remember. It lost a lot of money and people talked about if they were worth all the trouble and expense.
7/20/2008 9:53 pm (et) ks: The book states...."When one is on a Lincoln pilgrimage, he has the first sense of being in a living Lincoln country when he reaches Decatur. It is the first place where there are still people who really knew him, and is one of the four or five Illinois towns which treasure most sympathetically and intelligently its Lincoln contacts, which seem not only to revere but to love the man." Your reaction to that?7/20/2008 9:53 pm (et) Basecat: Anymore thought on Chapter 9?? If not...let's move on to Chapter 10...In Defense of the Icon... which deals with the most famous memorial to Abe, the one that sits right next to the Potomac in DC.
7/20/2008 9:54 pm (et) Susansweet: World's Fairs 2000 - Hanover, Germany - Expo 20007/20/2008 9:54 pm (et) Susansweet: 2002 - cancelled (planned site: Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia)
7/20/2008 9:54 pm (et) ks: I should add that quote was from Ida Tarbell in "Footsteps" which is quoted in the book we've been reading.7/20/2008 9:55 pm (et) Susansweet: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_world%27s_fairs
7/20/2008 9:55 pm (et) Basecat: Thanks Susan.7/20/2008 9:55 pm (et) Susansweet: List of all the World's fairs. still going on it seems
7/20/2008 9:55 pm (et) ks: I mean, you being from Decatur and all, I'm interested in your take on it, Coy.7/20/2008 9:56 pm (et) Basecat: Same here Coy. :)
7/20/2008 9:56 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Well, I visited the Memorial for the first time as an adult last June. Walking up those steps at night with AL all lit up and a choir singing the Battle Hymn of the Republic sure brought a lump to my throat and nothing will ever make me feel different.7/20/2008 9:56 pm (et) mobile_96: Have always like that statue better than the others of him.
7/20/2008 9:57 pm (et) Susansweet: I saw it first in the 70's and it really had an impression on me7/20/2008 9:57 pm (et) Coy: Sorry, something happened and I couldn't send
7/20/2008 9:57 pm (et) ks: Did you catch my question, Coy? :)7/20/2008 9:57 pm (et) Babs: Deaf Culture has a tradition that Lincoln's hands were purposely formed in "A" and "L" in sign language to honor the deaf. He did sign for Galaudet University to be established but I don't know if his hands' positions are intentional or not.
7/20/2008 9:58 pm (et) Susansweet: Interesting tradition Babs.7/20/2008 9:59 pm (et) Basecat: LF...Walking up those steps is something that sticks in my mind as well...You can take an elevator to avoid the steps, but that defeats the purpose in my mind. First time I was there was in 1976, and just remember standing in the chamber, and being in awe.
7/20/2008 10:00 pm (et) ks: Darn. Coy must be having some technical difficulties. Really looked forward to seeing what someone from Decatur would have to say about Tarbell's comments.7/20/2008 10:00 pm (et) ks: Or...he may be trying again. ;)
7/20/2008 10:01 pm (et) Basecat: And Ferguson wrote about how to capture the best photo stuck in my head as well, as that is what happened when I visited there over the years.7/20/2008 10:01 pm (et) ks: Very accurate, I thought. Place has always been crowded with tourists when I've visited. Next to impossible to get a solo shot there.
7/20/2008 10:01 pm (et) Susansweet: I have to look at my picture and see what I got when I was there .7/20/2008 10:02 pm (et) Susansweet: I loved Morton's speech about who and what Lincoln did
7/20/2008 10:02 pm (et) Coy: I got the question but have to figure the room out. Sorry. Serves me right for being AWOL so long. Decatur is definitely all about Lincoln. Family first settled right outside of Decatur. First nominated for Pres in Decatur.. Part of his Circuit was in Decatur....Definitely revered in Decatur. And hey, you have the Lincoln's, Pickets, and Coy's...7/20/2008 10:03 pm (et) ks: Need anyone say more?? ;) Thanks, Coy. Haven't made it to Decatur any time I've been in Springfield. Maybe in August...maybe...
7/20/2008 10:04 pm (et) Basecat: Susan...Harding's speech was good as well...and liked the analogy the author wrote as well...comparing Abe and Warren.:)7/20/2008 10:04 pm (et) mobile_96: cwbksell says: Then we come to the very best part of the whole book in the last few pages of the last chapter with the 1922 dedication ceremony of the Lincoln Monument in Washington D. C. It was not Harding, nor Taft, but Robert Moton who summed it up the best. He had everything in the right perspective. His speech reminded me of a picture I received a couple years ago. It was of a Confederate reenactor. He was holding the Confederate flag in one hand and in the other he held a sign that read "Heritage, not Hate." Like Robert Moton, this fellow was also black, and they both understood and appreciated the past for what it was and not what so many misguided people today think it was.
7/20/2008 10:05 pm (et) Coy: Test...using explorer instead of firefox...test7/20/2008 10:05 pm (et) Coy: explorer works better...:)
7/20/2008 10:06 pm (et) Susansweet: Mobile what cwbsell says is good.7/20/2008 10:07 pm (et) ks: Loved that bit from Morton that Lincoln saved the Union, but it was a particular kind of Union he saved: A Union dedicated to a proposition.
7/20/2008 10:08 pm (et) Susansweet: I loved that part too.7/20/2008 10:08 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Are we all here?
7/20/2008 10:08 pm (et) mobile_96: Thought it was excellent idea7/20/2008 10:08 pm (et) Basecat: Pat, and a very different type of Union than what Garibaldi and Bismarck saved.
7/20/2008 10:08 pm (et) ks: I was so impressed with Morton's speech that I actually read it aloud in bed to my husband. Now THAT rarely happens. ;)7/20/2008 10:09 pm (et) Vickie: Still here.
7/20/2008 10:09 pm (et) Babs: I got no place to go.7/20/2008 10:09 pm (et) Coy: When was this book first written?
7/20/2008 10:09 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Sorry, I seemed to be locked for several minutes.7/20/2008 10:09 pm (et) Basecat: 2007 Coy.
7/20/2008 10:10 pm (et) ks: 2007 copyright, Coy.7/20/2008 10:10 pm (et) ks: Wasn't locked up here. Sans glitch...for a change. ;)
7/20/2008 10:10 pm (et) Susansweet: I marked the speech as I really liked it . Want to remember where to find it.7/20/2008 10:11 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: The last three paragraphs of this chapter says it all. I also read it aloud to someone.
7/20/2008 10:11 pm (et) Basecat: Anymore memories from your visit to the Memorial in DC?? Thing that stands out to me more there..is the 2nd Inaugural on the wall, which IMHO is his best speech.7/20/2008 10:12 pm (et) ks: Agreed, Lincoln Fan. :) I think it should be typed up and be posted along with the chat on shotgun's archive. :) I'll do that.
7/20/2008 10:13 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Thanks ks.7/20/2008 10:13 pm (et) ks: Already shared my story of visiting the Memorial in an earlier chat. That of the Russian tourist silencing all chatter and activity there when he quoted in it's entirety and from memory (and with emotion) the Gettysburg Address.
7/20/2008 10:14 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I don't know if Ferguson ever found Lincoln, but Morton found him.7/20/2008 10:14 pm (et) Susansweet: This book fits with Sarah Vowells book Assination Destination
7/20/2008 10:15 pm (et) mobile_96: What about the one in IL at the Lincoln Tomb, wonder if he's still alive today.7/20/2008 10:16 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: ks, I never heard your story of the Russian tourist but he sounds much like the man in the epilog. Lincoln isn't just ours, is he? He belongs to the whole world.
7/20/2008 10:16 pm (et) Babs: Yes it does, Susan. I have some elements of each muddled as I "read" them simultaneously. Have Sarah's book on CD and listened to it from Michigan to Gettysburg a couple of weeks ago.7/20/2008 10:16 pm (et) Basecat: Well then let's move to the Postscript. Seeing as I will not be in Springfield, I do hope someone takes a photo of the Hilton...LOL..:) Seriously, it's a fitting postscript and as Mobile alluded to in his post, I too wonder if the old man from the Czech Republic, who made the pilgrimage is still alive.
7/20/2008 10:17 pm (et) Susansweet: Now that I would love to listen to.7/20/2008 10:17 pm (et) mobile_96: Have a portion of mom's side of the family is Czech.
7/20/2008 10:18 pm (et) Babs: Got it cheap on Amazon. It is already on loan.7/20/2008 10:18 pm (et) ks: Huh. It's Moton, not Morton. Didn't recall that, but am copying text.
7/20/2008 10:19 pm (et) ks: Both sides, all four grandparents are Czech. That account really stood out to me. Yes, my experience at the LM reminded me very much of the one in the last chapter with the gentleman from Czechloslovakia.7/20/2008 10:19 pm (et) Susansweet: Drat would love to borrow it.
7/20/2008 10:19 pm (et) Basecat: Story of that man reminds me of the earlier tale of the family that ran the restaurant in Chicago. Abe does belong to the world, and sad to see how much he is taken for granted here in the United States.7/20/2008 10:20 pm (et) Babs: Somehow this makes me think of Marion Anderson singing at the Lincoln Memorial when she was refused by the DAR.
7/20/2008 10:20 pm (et) Susansweet: I thought of that and Martin Luther King making his most famous speech there7/20/2008 10:21 pm (et) Babs: Susan, I'll put you in the reserved list.
7/20/2008 10:21 pm (et) Susansweet: Thanks7/20/2008 10:21 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Good point, Babs. Think of how many other historic things have occurred there. MLK among them.
7/20/2008 10:22 pm (et) Susansweet: That's where people go in Washington . Not Jefferson or Washington. They go to Lincoln7/20/2008 10:23 pm (et) Basecat: Will just add about the LM in DC...For those who have not seen the film Mr. Smith Goes To Washington, there is a scene in the movie which shows James Stewart watching a black Grandpa reading the words of The Gettysburg Address to his grandson there.
7/20/2008 10:24 pm (et) Susansweet: That was one of my favorite movies when I was a kid and they showed it on tv.7/20/2008 10:25 pm (et) Basecat: Pat is gonna post the last 3 paragraphs from chapter 10, and to me that is the fitting way to bring this book chat on Ferguson's book to a close.
7/20/2008 10:26 pm (et) ks: The following quote is from Robert Moton, the third speaker at the dedication ceremony for the Lincoln Memorial. Morton was the president of Tuskegee Institute and a son of slaves.7/20/2008 10:28 pm (et) mobile_96: Another great discussion.
”When the last veteran has stacked his arms, when only the memory of high courage and deep devotion remains, at such a time the united voice of grateful posterity will say: The claim of greatness for Abraham Lincoln lies in this, that amid doubt and distrust, against the counsel of chosen advisers, in the hour of the Nation’s utter peril, he put his trust in God and spoke the word that gave freedom to a race and vindicated the honor of a Nation conceived in liberty and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.”
Moton’s logic is the simple logic of the icon. If Lincoln had failed, the country would have ceased to exist. The founders would have lost their bet that ordinary people could govern themselves, and the principle they were betting on---that all men were created equal---would have slipped into darkness, and no one can say when it might have been revived.
But Lincoln didn’t fail. The Union was saved, and the proposition was preserved. That’s what the memorial says. That’s what the icon, solid and unmoving on the banks of the river, stands for. The rest is just nuance. ~Andrew Furguson in “Land of Lincoln: Adventures in Abe’s America”
7/20/2008 10:28 pm (et) Susansweet: Amen7/20/2008 10:28 pm (et) ks: Yep. Good book. :)
7/20/2008 10:29 pm (et) Basecat: I thank you all for particpating in this book chat. I really enjoyed reading this book, and having the opportunity to talk to you all about it. Thanks to my co-moderator Pat as well and as per usual.:)7/20/2008 10:29 pm (et) Vickie: Great chat.
7/20/2008 10:30 pm (et) Susansweet: Really enjoyed this book. Reminded me of the two mentioned books Confederates in the Attic and Sarah Vowells book7/20/2008 10:30 pm (et) ks: I keep re-reading that section from Moton and thinking that I want to hear those words spoken aloud at Springfield. :)
7/20/2008 10:30 pm (et) Basecat: Beats the hell out of Bloody Promenade...;)7/20/2008 10:30 pm (et) mobile_96: Read CitA, but haven't heard of Sarah's.
7/20/2008 10:30 pm (et) ks: What's Sarah Vowell's book? Keep seeing mention and drawing a blank.7/20/2008 10:31 pm (et) Babs: Pack your book.
7/20/2008 10:31 pm (et) ks: Thank you, mobile. I don't feel so all alone. ;)7/20/2008 10:31 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Thanks Base and Pat. This was great as usual. Susan, I'm going to have to get Confederates in the Attic. I've heard so much about it.
7/20/2008 10:31 pm (et) Susansweet: Bring it with you and read it.7/20/2008 10:31 pm (et) ks: I will, Babs. ;)
7/20/2008 10:31 pm (et) mobile_96: Maybe at the Lincoln Tomb?7/20/2008 10:31 pm (et) mobile_96: Most everything beat Bloody Promenade.
7/20/2008 10:31 pm (et) ks: That's exactly the spot I had in mind, mobile. Seems fitting.7/20/2008 10:32 pm (et) Susansweet: Sarah Vowell has several books Assignation Destination is the one I really like . My boss at the Drum loaned me her copy. There is a great story in there about getting Plaqued which fits with the seeing places that aren't there anymore.
7/20/2008 10:32 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Wow. Wish I were with you guys. I'll be in Illinois, but just going through.7/20/2008 10:32 pm (et) Babs: Basecat, "Bloody Promenade"
RETURN TO INTRO PAGE