Book Chat
Jefferson Davis, American
William J. Cooper

This chat took place in the Civil War Home Chatroom on 10/05/08 and covered Chapters 18, 19, & Epilogue.

10/5/2008 9:08 pm (et) Basecat: Cue the trumpet fanfare..."Blow Trumpet...Blow!!"...:) Welcome to the final book chat on William J. Cooper Jr.'s book Jefferson Davis, American Please refrain from using the PM function during the chat. Thanks.

10/5/2008 9:09 pm (et) calcav: Invented during the depression when beef was costly. It is a deep fried patty made from pork and soybean. They charged a nickle or a "slug" per burger. The prices have gone up.

10/5/2008 9:10 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: We open with Davis living at Beauvoir with Sara Dorsey. What does everyone make of that relationship?

10/5/2008 9:10 pm (et) Basecat: Our final discussion will be based on Chapters 18, 19 and the epilogue. Let's delve into Chapter 18.. The Duty of Doing Justice To the Cause.

10/5/2008 9:10 pm (et) Susansweet: She was a Davis groupie before the term groupie was invented.

10/5/2008 9:12 pm (et) mobile_96: Very interesting relationship.

10/5/2008 9:12 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I think he appreciated all she did for him, but I also think she really loved him - enough to take care of not only him, but Varina. What does the Varina book say.

10/5/2008 9:12 pm (et) Basecat: Reminds me of Monica Lewinsky, but that's a different century. :) Seriously, as I read about these famous men of those times, they often seemed to have "friendships" with women on the side. Sherman was the same way when he lived in NYC after the war.

10/5/2008 9:14 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Well, Varina wanted nothing to do with the whole thing in the beginning..

10/5/2008 9:14 pm (et) Susansweet: And as Cooper said about Sara Varina didn't like her because of something in the past when they were girls.

10/5/2008 9:15 pm (et) Basecat: LF and Susan, which is not surprising that she would react that way. Quite a different tale from previous chapters that sited the love letters JD sent to Varina throughout the book.

10/5/2008 9:15 pm (et) Susansweet: I know and amazing thing is Varina came to be friends with Sara.

10/5/2008 9:16 pm (et) secret squirrel: JD seemed to like the ladies almost as much as he liked himself.

10/5/2008 9:16 pm (et) Susansweet: She realizes they really have no place else to go.

10/5/2008 9:16 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I have to wonder about those letters, also, Base, because they certainly didn't mind living apart, no matter what they said or wrote.

10/5/2008 9:16 pm (et) secret squirrel: Susan, i guess that was after Sara nursed Varina.

10/5/2008 9:16 pm (et) Susansweet: He liked the ladies liking him as much as he liked himself..

10/5/2008 9:16 pm (et) secret squirrel: And that too Susan.

10/5/2008 9:16 pm (et) calcav: Sure would like to know what happened and what was said the night Varina ran into the woods and Sarah went after her????

10/5/2008 9:17 pm (et) mobile_96: Susan, maybe it was because of the care Sara showed Both of them when they were so sick. In other words, the attention wasn't just in 1 direction.

10/5/2008 9:17 pm (et) Susansweet: Oh yeah that is one of those times you wish you had a tape recorder .

10/5/2008 9:17 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Yeah, calcav. Me too.

10/5/2008 9:18 pm (et) Basecat: LF...agian I use Sherman, as he lived apart from his wife quite a bit, but those letters were mainly based on Cump becoming a Catholic, which he wanted no part.

10/5/2008 9:18 pm (et) Susansweet: Mobile I am sure that is part of it, Varina could be practical.

10/5/2008 9:20 pm (et) Susansweet: And then Davis sets to work writing his book!!!

10/5/2008 9:21 pm (et) Susansweet: What a mess !

10/5/2008 9:21 pm (et) Basecat: That's one thing all these CW bios. seem to have in common...The Protagonists of the story all had various ailments at various times...Sometimes I wonder if that generation did not invent hypochondria...And yes I know Varina was sick at this time, but sheesh. That seems to be something they all remembered.

10/5/2008 9:21 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: It's hard to believe he didn't know it wasn't being written. Just never checked up on it.

10/5/2008 9:23 pm (et) mobile_96: Probably had no more ailments than we do, but today we have actual cures for the same diseases.

10/5/2008 9:23 pm (et) secret squirrel: BC, could be they lacked the wonder pills we have today and suffered a little more with common things. think about it no Tylenol, no Motrin, but they had the hard stuff.

10/5/2008 9:23 pm (et) calcav: My thoughts LF, he dictated for TWO YEARS and then was surprised there was no real manuscript. He never once asked, "So Bill, how's the book coming?"

10/5/2008 9:24 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Earlier in his life he was always so aware of things, remember when he was in Mexico how he always had to let his cronies in DC and Miss know what he was doing. Now he writes a book which he really needs because he's broke, and he never checks up on it.

10/5/2008 9:24 pm (et) Susansweet: I thought the same thing , no checking to see if he got the dictation right

10/5/2008 9:24 pm (et) calcav: SS got it!! It was the hard stuff that prevented Jeff from seeing the book was not being written!

10/5/2008 9:24 pm (et) Basecat: Mobile...and SS...Very true...Thing I find interesting is how a lot we know about these people is because of the ailments they had...Seems to be one of the few things they really documented in their lives.

10/5/2008 9:25 pm (et) Susansweet: And who was the ex Confederate officer who purloin his papers when given to the officer for safe keeping?'

10/5/2008 9:25 pm (et) mobile_96: Like TB, many died of it in that era, today, it much more rare.

10/5/2008 9:25 pm (et) calcav: And how much money did that ex-officer make off of those records.

10/5/2008 9:26 pm (et) Susansweet: Who was it ?

10/5/2008 9:26 pm (et) Susansweet: Or rather who was he ?

10/5/2008 9:27 pm (et) Basecat: Jeff Davis not being aware is a copout tome...Whenever HE was involved he reacted.

10/5/2008 9:28 pm (et) secret squirrel: I agree bc, but why didn't he act on it?

10/5/2008 9:28 pm (et) Susansweet: Base, that is what got me, He so micromanaged every thing he had done up to this point. What happened here .

10/5/2008 9:28 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I forgot about the money. Didn't the book say Davis tried to find the money? Wasn't that money officially the Confederate governments?

10/5/2008 9:28 pm (et) secret squirrel: Was his advance a lump sum?

10/5/2008 9:29 pm (et) mobile_96: Monthly installments I believe

10/5/2008 9:29 pm (et) Basecat: SS and Susan...I wish I knew...Made no sense to me either...Only thing I can think of was he was older, and maybe he was slipping.

10/5/2008 9:30 pm (et) Susansweet: Steve is it known who that Confederate officer refered to in the book is ? The one that used Davis's papers .

10/5/2008 9:31 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Wasn't it the guy who was writing the book (forgot his name) that was getting the monthly paycheck.

10/5/2008 9:31 pm (et) secret squirrel: Ah ha! that's it. the money

10/5/2008 9:32 pm (et) Susansweet: Walthall was suppose to be writing the book and he was getting a stipend for doing it .

10/5/2008 9:32 pm (et) calcav: The book says that Jeff's was a real issue during those two years. Many hol ups because of illness.

10/5/2008 9:33 pm (et) secret squirrel: And he couldn't afford for the book company to find out he was not keeping up with contract terms.

10/5/2008 9:33 pm (et) calcav: Sorry, Jeff's health was an issue. What about the guy who was sent from the publisher and said everything was on track?

10/5/2008 9:33 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: He was getting $250 a month, but I don't think Davis got anything until the book sold.

10/5/2008 9:33 pm (et) secret squirrel: Looks like a lose-lose.

10/5/2008 9:33 pm (et) Susansweet: I love the quote , He had obviously not over seen the work with any care .

10/5/2008 9:34 pm (et) mobile_96: W.J.Tenney.

10/5/2008 9:34 pm (et) secret squirrel: I thought Davis made SURE he got an advance.

10/5/2008 9:34 pm (et) Susansweet: 8,000 had been advanced.

10/5/2008 9:34 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Bottom of page 661. Do you think Davis was correct when he sued the publisher for not increasing the royalty.

10/5/2008 9:34 pm (et) mobile_96: No, only Walthall.

10/5/2008 9:35 pm (et) secret squirrel: Need to go look that up in the book, but i already burned it..

10/5/2008 9:35 pm (et) secret squirrel: :0

10/5/2008 9:35 pm (et) calcav: Davis was wrong. It was a standard literary contract, almost identical to what you see today. He took advantage of poor wording.

10/5/2008 9:36 pm (et) Susansweet: Seems like Tenney is the one that turned everything around.

10/5/2008 9:36 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I agree calcav. ss, you didn't really burn it, did you?

10/5/2008 9:36 pm (et) mobile_96: Thought that Cal, the increase was only supposed to be on the ones sold over the initial 20,000.

10/5/2008 9:37 pm (et) secret squirrel: No, i paid for that joker.

10/5/2008 9:37 pm (et) Susansweet: She just wants to burn it .

10/5/2008 9:38 pm (et) secret squirrel: Yep.

10/5/2008 9:38 pm (et) Susansweet: You can use it for firewood later on this winter .

10/5/2008 9:38 pm (et) Basecat: truth to the rumor that there will be a book chat on the JD papers...If so, we'll still be doing that chat in 2051. :)

10/5/2008 9:38 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: A library book sale donation would be a good idea. I actually liked it as I knew next to nothing about Davis.

10/5/2008 9:38 pm (et) secret squirrel: lol bc.

10/5/2008 9:39 pm (et) Susansweet: That works for me Basecat.

10/5/2008 9:39 pm (et) calcav: I'm glad I read it. I knew next to nothing about Davis before we started. Nita

10/5/2008 9:39 pm (et) Susansweet: I am glad I read it too .

10/5/2008 9:40 pm (et) Susansweet: And it was very readable.

10/5/2008 9:40 pm (et) mobile_96: Base, but that's only contingent on them being down with all the Davis papers by then.

10/5/2008 9:40 pm (et) Basecat: We are not done yet...:)

10/5/2008 9:40 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I've been making excuses for Davis through the whole book, but I really became angry when he tried to get Brierfield from Joe's kids.

10/5/2008 9:40 pm (et) Susansweet: Unlike I bet the two volumes of Jefferson Davis books.

10/5/2008 9:40 pm (et) Basecat: IIRC, the final volume will be out in few years...

10/5/2008 9:41 pm (et) Basecat: Anymore thoughts or comments on Chapter 18?

10/5/2008 9:42 pm (et) Susansweet: The quote He had built a monument to his cause says it all .

10/5/2008 9:42 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Funny, how he became friends with Early and he hardly knew the guy during the war.

10/5/2008 9:43 pm (et) Susansweet: The part of the chapter about the Southern Historical society was interesting as I wasn't sure how that had started and what it was about .

10/5/2008 9:43 pm (et) Basecat: If not, am going to combine Chapter 19 and the Epilogue together. Let's post some observations from those two final passages from the book.

10/5/2008 9:43 pm (et) calcav: How about Teddy Roosevelt comparing him to Benedict Arnold!!

10/5/2008 9:43 pm (et) secret squirrel: They shared the same vision, and by this time, it looks like most people were prepared to get on with life.

10/5/2008 9:44 pm (et) Susansweet: I was just going to say that was an interesting comment

10/5/2008 9:44 pm (et) Basecat: LF...As SS just posted, they were a like in many ways, and is not surprising to me at all. Both held Lee on a Pedestal as well.

10/5/2008 9:44 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Yeah, cal. That's like base comparing Sarah Dorsey to Monica Lewinski. Right, base.

10/5/2008 9:44 pm (et) mobile_96: Try getting the SHSP on disc Susan, contains quite a bit of interesting material, everything in it is Not Lost cause material.

10/5/2008 9:45 pm (et) Basecat: LF, My Monica did not take care of Hillary, so bad comparison.

10/5/2008 9:45 pm (et) Susansweet: Mobile there is a set at the Drum.

10/5/2008 9:45 pm (et) Susansweet: Will have to look at it

10/5/2008 9:46 pm (et) Susansweet: One of the lines in the last chapter really says it all about Varina and Beauvoir.

10/5/2008 9:46 pm (et) calcav: Perk of the job, we have a hard copy of the SHSP 20 feet from our desks. Not to brag :)

10/5/2008 9:47 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: That's a good one, base.

10/5/2008 9:47 pm (et) Susansweet: Varina did not share her husbands Happiness with their new home.

10/5/2008 9:48 pm (et) calcav: She didn't even like the place after Sarah passed away.

10/5/2008 9:48 pm (et) Susansweet: I would have liked to me Varina and chat with her. I would not have liked to meet Jefferson.

10/5/2008 9:48 pm (et) secret squirrel: Nor would I.

10/5/2008 9:48 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Do you suppose her feelings for the house changed after Sarah's death when the home belonged to JD?

10/5/2008 9:48 pm (et) Susansweet: Can you blame her ?

10/5/2008 9:49 pm (et) Susansweet: Confederates would just show up at the house to visit and pay respect.

10/5/2008 9:49 pm (et) secret squirrel: lf, why in the world would she love a place another woman gave to her husband?

10/5/2008 9:49 pm (et) secret squirrel: It could be Buckingham palace and I would want to sell it.

10/5/2008 9:49 pm (et) Susansweet: All kinds of reporters and others just showing up .

10/5/2008 9:50 pm (et) Susansweet: All of that and Varina liked the city and all it had rather than the country.

10/5/2008 9:50 pm (et) Susansweet: And the hot southern climate.

10/5/2008 9:51 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Did Davis insist on living there over her objections because of money or selfishness. Probably both.

10/5/2008 9:51 pm (et) Basecat: Just from my impressions, she never liked the place...Never liked the original design of it as mentioned earlier in the book...To me, and just from reading her thoughts was not a true home to her.

10/5/2008 9:51 pm (et) Susansweet: Then there is poor Winnie.

10/5/2008 9:52 pm (et) calcav: It was a lack of options for Varina.

10/5/2008 9:52 pm (et) secret squirrel: Yes, as we say today, she had to suck it up.

10/5/2008 9:52 pm (et) Susansweet: Right Calcav, she didn't have much choice and there wasn't much to do there.

10/5/2008 9:52 pm (et) Susansweet: lol right on ss.

10/5/2008 9:53 pm (et) Susansweet: And she did til she could move to New York after he died .

10/5/2008 9:53 pm (et) calcav: Maybe that's what Sarah went out in the woods to tell her.

10/5/2008 9:53 pm (et) Basecat: Cal Cav, and it seemed that she always had ailments when spending time there. I tend to think depression was the main cause of those ailments.

10/5/2008 9:53 pm (et) secret squirrel: Yep, she suffered a lot behind him.

10/5/2008 9:54 pm (et) Susansweet: Sarah went out in the woods and said Suck it up Varina?

10/5/2008 9:54 pm (et) calcav: Yes, we have the tape recorded version.

10/5/2008 9:55 pm (et) Susansweet: Wow I am impressed.

10/5/2008 9:55 pm (et) calcav: Another perk of the job :)

10/5/2008 9:56 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I think Sarah told her to exhibit proper manners so nothing negative would reflect on Davis. I'd have left by then.

10/5/2008 9:56 pm (et) Susansweet: I think you might be right Fan.

10/5/2008 9:56 pm (et) mobile_96: Or just that her husband needed her very badly!

10/5/2008 9:56 pm (et) Susansweet: Sounds like what might be said.

10/5/2008 9:56 pm (et) calcav: LF, I would have too! Nita

10/5/2008 9:57 pm (et) Susansweet: And Mobile yours sounds logical too.

10/5/2008 9:57 pm (et) Susansweet: Or combine the two together.

10/5/2008 9:58 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Could be right mobile. We'll never know.

10/5/2008 9:58 pm (et) Susansweet: That picture of Varina on page 686 shows how much she had changed. I looked at it several times before I figured out it was her.

10/5/2008 9:59 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I did too Susan.

10/5/2008 9:59 pm (et) Susansweet: Even though it named her as being in the picture.

10/5/2008 9:59 pm (et) secret squirrel: You know, JD was something else, i was just thinking about how he fought the Dorsey family when they challenged the will; now when it came to his brother's property he fought like a demon.

10/5/2008 9:59 pm (et) Susansweet: She actually looks older than he does.

10/5/2008 9:59 pm (et) mobile_96: She did admit to have gained in size, but I didn't expect that much.

10/5/2008 10:01 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Depends on which side the money is on SS.

10/5/2008 10:01 pm (et) secret squirrel: So long as it ended up in his pocket; he didn't care.

10/5/2008 10:01 pm (et) secret squirrel: Ruthless.

10/5/2008 10:02 pm (et) Susansweet: That's it , he wanted all that was what he thought was his.

10/5/2008 10:02 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: If he'd lived today, he could have worked for Wall Street.

10/5/2008 10:02 pm (et) Susansweet: Interesting too his battle with the Mississippi River and his idea that wouldn't be done for another 50 years . Took a major flood to get it done.

10/5/2008 10:03 pm (et) calcav: Bingo Susan, we were sitting here discussing how self centered he was from chapter 1 till the end. Blame it on his family or the man himself.

10/5/2008 10:04 pm (et) secret squirrel: Just amazing, this guy. writes one thing and does another almost every time when it came to his family.

10/5/2008 10:04 pm (et) Susansweet: Calcav everyone but his brother deferred to him.

10/5/2008 10:05 pm (et) Basecat: What was interesting to me is much like Lee, both men had a severe chill right before they died. And JD was one of the few well known ex- politicians or soldiers on the Confederate side whose death did not include the infamous last words of say Lee and Jackson...Davis passed away quietly. Was tough to read that he did not want Polly and Winnie to know about how ill he was, as he did not wish to bother them...Know both were far from home at the time, but after reading throughout the book how much the children meant to him, I would have thought he would have wanted to see them once more before he passed.

10/5/2008 10:05 pm (et) Susansweet: And his brother acted as a father figure.

10/5/2008 10:05 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I think it's fascinating how the Mississippi River changed the land so much during JD's lifetime. I've never been down there, but would love to go. Also would like to read a history of the river.

10/5/2008 10:06 pm (et) calcav: But even Joseph focused on his education and career. He made Jeff the family figurehead.

10/5/2008 10:06 pm (et) secret squirrel: Just a thought, but maybe he didn't want them to see him sick and dependent.

10/5/2008 10:06 pm (et) Susansweet: There is a book on the river and the flood control called I believe Rising Tide.

10/5/2008 10:06 pm (et) Susansweet: Right Calcav.

10/5/2008 10:06 pm (et) Basecat: SS..Could be...and maybe he knew they would not arrive in time.

10/5/2008 10:07 pm (et) Susansweet: Rising Tide by John M Barry. The Great Mississippi flood of 1927 and how it changed America.

10/5/2008 10:08 pm (et) calcav: The guy was sick ALL the time. Even he may not have known it was the final time??

10/5/2008 10:08 pm (et) secret squirrel: We will never know calcav.

10/5/2008 10:08 pm (et) Susansweet: Base my father did not want me to know he was as ill as he was . I was in Oregon when he died attending theatre festival. I didn't get to say good-by.

10/5/2008 10:08 pm (et) Susansweet: But I remember him the way he was before.

10/5/2008 10:09 pm (et) Susansweet: Which to me is a good thing.

10/5/2008 10:09 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Thanks, Susan. I knew I could count on you for the right book. BTW, I thought his last written words were very "quotable" "May all your paths be peaceful and pleasant, charged with the best fruit, the doing good to others." Shame he didn't live by those words.

10/5/2008 10:10 pm (et) Susansweet: You are welcome.

10/5/2008 10:10 pm (et) secret squirrel: He must have run out of ink, because he left a part out...except when (fill in the blanks).

10/5/2008 10:10 pm (et) Susansweet: Bless Varina she sat there and held his hand to the end.

10/5/2008 10:10 pm (et) secret squirrel: I'm sure she loved him.

10/5/2008 10:11 pm (et) Susansweet: I am sure she did.

10/5/2008 10:11 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I like that, ss.

10/5/2008 10:11 pm (et) Susansweet: More than he did her , she loved him as much as he loved himself

10/5/2008 10:12 pm (et) Basecat: Before I put the cap on the book chat...I would love to read your thoughts on the book, and if it changed your opinion of JD, and if it did not, but strengthened your perceptions you had about his life before reading the book.

10/5/2008 10:12 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Don't know about that Susan, relationships can be very different outside of the public eye.

10/5/2008 10:13 pm (et) Susansweet: Yeah Dave I am sure you are right there. a flip answer from me .

10/5/2008 10:13 pm (et) Basecat: And of course any observations you wish to share after reading the book and participating in the chat.

10/5/2008 10:13 pm (et) secret squirrel: Now that I know more about him I like him even less. I am just about finished the Varina book by Cashin.

10/5/2008 10:13 pm (et) mobile_96: I enjoyed the book, especially what happened after he was let go.

10/5/2008 10:14 pm (et) Basecat: SS..Put me in that category as well...but learned quite a bit about him by reading the book.

10/5/2008 10:14 pm (et) Susansweet: I am glad I read the book , I did get some insights into him to add to what I had read in the Varina book. I enjoyed the book. the last chapter The Epilogue summed him up nicely

10/5/2008 10:14 pm (et) mobile_96: Really want to read cashin's book now to try and see the Other side of the story.

10/5/2008 10:14 pm (et) Basecat: Mobile...Part of the story I did not know either..

10/5/2008 10:15 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I really loved the book, I learned a lot about Davis, and I think the best part was looking at the war from the Southern perspective, which we seldom do. We read a lot about Lincoln, McClellan, Grant, etc., but I never knew a lot about the dynamics between Davis, Lee, Bragg etc. I know a lot more ABOUT him, but still don't feel I know HIM.

10/5/2008 10:15 pm (et) mobile_96: And also that part of his life up to the start of the CW.

10/5/2008 10:15 pm (et) Susansweet: I was amazed at his saying the Confederacy was history and he would not advocate a new attempt at it.

10/5/2008 10:16 pm (et) mobile_96: LF, agree with your post.

10/5/2008 10:16 pm (et) Susansweet: I tried to stay very much in the 19th century thought reading it . I would still though slip back at times and get angry at certain thoughts or issues.

10/5/2008 10:16 pm (et) mobile_96: So was I Susan, almost, but not quite, like Lee.

10/5/2008 10:16 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: That surprised me to, Susan. And I have begun the Cashin book. Hope to read it during the break.

10/5/2008 10:16 pm (et) calcav: Page 700 was a surprise. "Let me beseech you lay aside all bitter sectional feelings."

10/5/2008 10:17 pm (et) secret squirrel: But argue the validity of secession till his dying day.

10/5/2008 10:17 pm (et) Basecat: Susan...Had he not been caught, he would have prolonged it as long as he could of...Guess what I got from from this book was there were many sides of JD that I really did not know about. Thought Cooper did excellent research on the life of Davis as well..

10/5/2008 10:17 pm (et) Susansweet: Very true !!!! he argued it validity when he did it.

10/5/2008 10:18 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Yeah, cal, but he didn't want a pardon. Go figure.

10/5/2008 10:18 pm (et) Susansweet: Think some of the neo-confederates should read those words of Jefferson Davis.

10/5/2008 10:18 pm (et) calcav: I didn't admire him before and I don't admire him now. That said it was a wonderful book and gave me alot of information about the man.

10/5/2008 10:18 pm (et) secret squirrel: I can't see how Varina dealt with that. My way or the highway.

10/5/2008 10:18 pm (et) mobile_96: It is hard to do Susan, but by doing so, we get closer to understanding his beliefs as He felt them, the point of our study is not to condemn, but to try and understand What happened, and Why. Finger pointing is too late now.

10/5/2008 10:18 pm (et) Susansweet: He felt he was right but that his time had passed.

10/5/2008 10:19 pm (et) Basecat: A question here as we move on to future book chats...would all be interested in doing more bios. on folks from both sides of the War in the future?

10/5/2008 10:19 pm (et) Susansweet: Mobile that is what I was trying to do. After all half my family fought for him and the Cause . The other side fought agin him.

10/5/2008 10:20 pm (et) Susansweet: I would love to do another bio later on.

10/5/2008 10:20 pm (et) calcav: NIta likes bios, Tom likes studies of battles.

10/5/2008 10:20 pm (et) mobile_96: More bio's would be good.

10/5/2008 10:20 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: ss, that was part of the culture then. Women didn't have much to say about things. Couldn't even vote..

10/5/2008 10:21 pm (et) Susansweet: Funny the Drum book discussion group has had this same question. Should we read more bios.

10/5/2008 10:21 pm (et) secret squirrel: Agree to a point. In the house she should have been able to arrange compromises within the marriage. this guy had to be the dictator.

10/5/2008 10:21 pm (et) Babs: I like bios.

10/5/2008 10:21 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Base, I most certainly would. Sherman is another good one to study I think. Has anyone done Lee?

10/5/2008 10:22 pm (et) mobile_96: Think the book choices run in cycles, more bios, vs battles, vs civilians.

10/5/2008 10:22 pm (et) Susansweet: We read the Memoirs of Sherman this summer at the Drum and it was very interesting.

10/5/2008 10:22 pm (et) Susansweet: Mobile need a balance of all of them to see the whole picture.

10/5/2008 10:23 pm (et) Babs: We did Hooker. And the four wives of Lincoln, Davis, Grant and Lee.

10/5/2008 10:23 pm (et) mobile_96: That's what I feel Susan.

10/5/2008 10:23 pm (et) Susansweet: Would love to read bio of Slow Trot.

10/5/2008 10:23 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Bios are good, a CW subject ( like naval action etc ) is good now and then.

10/5/2008 10:23 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Haven't been with this group very long, but there seems to be a nice variety of books to read.

10/5/2008 10:24 pm (et) Susansweet: Naval action is also interesting.

10/5/2008 10:24 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Has anyone read The Age of Lincoln yet. My cousin's reading it and it seems to give a well-rounded perspective of the country during the time leading up to and during the war.

10/5/2008 10:24 pm (et) Susansweet: Hope we would do Class of 46 after holidays.

10/5/2008 10:24 pm (et) calcav: "Rise and Fall of the Confederacy???....just kidding.

10/5/2008 10:24 pm (et) mobile_96: Everyone realize that there will be up to 50 books on Lincoln from Oct 08 thru Dec. 09.

10/5/2008 10:24 pm (et) Babs: I wish I had kept a list of all the books we read. We have never done a naval one. We did a bio of Shaw.

10/5/2008 10:25 pm (et) Susansweet: Do something on Perryville before next summer.

10/5/2008 10:25 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: NO, NO, NO, Cal!!!!!!!!!!

10/5/2008 10:25 pm (et) Basecat: Susan...Class of '46 will be what we start 2009 with.

10/5/2008 10:25 pm (et) Susansweet: yipeee

10/5/2008 10:25 pm (et) mobile_96: Only 2 decent books on Perryville, Noe's and Hoffendorfers.

10/5/2008 10:25 pm (et) calcav: Good topic Susan! NIta

10/5/2008 10:26 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I don't think The Age of Lincoln is abut Lincoln (could be wrong).

10/5/2008 10:26 pm (et) Susansweet: Which one is the better one Mobile?

10/5/2008 10:26 pm (et) amhistoryguy: "Two Years on the Alabama," by Sinclair

10/5/2008 10:26 pm (et) Susansweet: Thanks Nita.

10/5/2008 10:26 pm (et) Susansweet: I like the title of that one Dave.

10/5/2008 10:27 pm (et) mobile_96: Still a good choice LF, overview of the U.S during that era.

10/5/2008 10:27 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I listened to Class of '46 on audio a few years ago, but also have the book. Looking forward to reading it.

10/5/2008 10:27 pm (et) Babs: We did one on Washington D.C. during the war. I don't remember the name of it.

10/5/2008 10:27 pm (et) mobile_96: Read it recently Dave.

10/5/2008 10:27 pm (et) Susansweet: Biography of Semmes and Farragut would be interesting contrast.

10/5/2008 10:27 pm (et) mobile_96: Noe's is the better read, but Hoff has much better maps.

10/5/2008 10:27 pm (et) Basecat: Furgurson's book on the CW in Washington...One of the better book chats IMHO.

10/5/2008 10:28 pm (et) Susansweet: Don't know that one Steve.

10/5/2008 10:28 pm (et) secret squirrel: Excuse me anyone, what does nita mean?

10/5/2008 10:28 pm (et) Susansweet: Friend just got the Seawolf about Raphel Semmes

10/5/2008 10:28 pm (et) Susansweet: She is the other half of Calcav

10/5/2008 10:28 pm (et) calcav: SS, there are two people here at "calcav. Tom and wife Nita.

10/5/2008 10:28 pm (et) secret squirrel: oh

10/5/2008 10:29 pm (et) Susansweet: see the two of them sitting there ------>

10/5/2008 10:29 pm (et) calcav: IMHO...LOL...NITA...I see the room for a mistake there :)

10/5/2008 10:29 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: The book is Freedom Rising - one of the best books I've ever read and wish I could have been on the chat for that one.

10/5/2008 10:30 pm (et) secret squirrel: Yes Susan i see them now.

10/5/2008 10:30 pm (et) amhistoryguy: "Sinews of War, How Technology, Industry and Transportation Won the Civil War," by Benjamin Bacon.

10/5/2008 10:30 pm (et) mobile_96: no, one is over there----------> and the other is over here >-<.

10/5/2008 10:30 pm (et) Basecat: And with that, I thank all for participating in this long but but interesting book chat on the life of Jefferson Davis. We will be on a two week break, and will be back on October 19th discussing Richard Miller's book on the 20th MASS., which member Coly will be moderating. Thanks again, and I enjoyed the discussions very much. :)