Book Chat
"Harvard's Civil War:
The History of the Twentieth Massachusetts Infantry Regiment"
Richard E. Miller

This chat took place in the Civil War Home Chatroom on 10/26/08 and covered Chapters 5 & 6

10/26/2008 9:08 pm (et) 20thMass: Welcome to Sunday night book chat. Tonight we will be discussing Chapters 5 and 6 of Richard Miller's book Harvard's Civil War. Please refrain from using the Private Message function during book chat.

10/26/2008 9:08 pm (et) 20thMass: Ball's Bluff was certainly a study in how not to command a battle.

10/26/2008 9:09 pm (et) Susansweet: Geeze you said it Coly

10/26/2008 9:10 pm (et) Susansweet: In more than one way.

10/26/2008 9:10 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: After reading Allegience about Fort Sumter and now Balls Bluff, it seems as though the first year was a learning experience all the way around.

10/26/2008 9:10 pm (et) Susansweet: Always fight with you back to water.

10/26/2008 9:10 pm (et) Babs: Make a movie of it starring the Keystone Cops.

10/26/2008 9:10 pm (et) Susansweet: I agree Fan.

10/26/2008 9:10 pm (et) mobile_96: Wanted to go back and compare Millers description of Balls Bluff with Morgan III, but ran out of time.

10/26/2008 9:10 pm (et) Susansweet: Good one Babs.

10/26/2008 9:11 pm (et) Susansweet: Coly you have been there right?

10/26/2008 9:11 pm (et) Widow: But Babs, it wasn't funny to them.

10/26/2008 9:11 pm (et) ole: Balls Bluff is not likely studied at West Point as a positive example of command.

10/26/2008 9:11 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Has anyone been to the battlefield? I was wondering if any of it was still left.

10/26/2008 9:11 pm (et) Susansweet: Is it as bad a site as it sounds ?

10/26/2008 9:11 pm (et) 20thMass: The troops for the Union at Ball's Bluff were all green the Confederate soldiers were veterans of Bull Run.

10/26/2008 9:11 pm (et) Babs: Widow. You are right. It was grim and terrifying.

10/26/2008 9:12 pm (et) 20thMass: Their is still a battlefield there but a lot of trees have grown up there.

10/26/2008 9:13 pm (et) Susansweet: How high up is it from the water ?

10/26/2008 9:13 pm (et) mobile_96: Pretty much Susan, steep bluff, and current very fast on both sides of the island.

10/26/2008 9:13 pm (et) 20thMass: From the shoreline to the top of the bluff where the battle took place is about 40 feet high.

10/26/2008 9:14 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Well, it was mostly trees anyway, except for the field in the center and the ravines on the north and south sides.

10/26/2008 9:14 pm (et) Susansweet: That's high enough.

10/26/2008 9:14 pm (et) amhistoryguy: I won't be contributing much, not "doing" this book. Too little time to read and prepare.

10/26/2008 9:14 pm (et) Susansweet: And the current as mobile says is swift . That is a not a good place to have a battle.

10/26/2008 9:15 pm (et) Susansweet: But stick around Dave we need your cannon expertise.

10/26/2008 9:15 pm (et) Babs: Union troops could have used his expertise too.

10/26/2008 9:15 pm (et) ole: The term, FUBAR, was most likely coined in that engagement.

10/26/2008 9:15 pm (et) 20thMass: One company lead by Bartlett was mostly from Nantucket Island and were very good swimmers but it was even tough on them.

10/26/2008 9:16 pm (et) mobile_96: Huge mistake was not trying to provide more boats Before the move across the river was made.

10/26/2008 9:16 pm (et) Babs: LOL

10/26/2008 9:16 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: 40 feet isn't much. From the number of men involved, it sounds fairly crowded. May have contributed to the casualty figures. The book says the current was strong. Must have been a really difficult swim back to Harrison's, even for a good swimmer.

10/26/2008 9:16 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Yeah, I'm an ex spurt alright, a has been drip forced by pressure.

10/26/2008 9:17 pm (et) Babs: Especially difficult to swim while being shot at.

10/26/2008 9:17 pm (et) 20thMass: It was crowded and the tide was high with fast moving water and Confederates were shooting at them.

10/26/2008 9:17 pm (et) ole: Good swimmers are in the most danger. Poor swimmers know better than to jump into swift water.

10/26/2008 9:17 pm (et) Susansweet: Good thought Ole.

10/26/2008 9:18 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: It was either dusk or dark during the retreat, wasn't it.

10/26/2008 9:18 pm (et) 20thMass: I believe it was dusk.

10/26/2008 9:19 pm (et) ole: Dusk is a hard time. You can see things, but you can't recognize them.

10/26/2008 9:19 pm (et) Susansweet: Hard to swim in wool uniforms and those that took them off then had nothing on the other side if they made it.

10/26/2008 9:19 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: You know what bothered me, Lee having to relinquish command to officers who didn't know the field as well as he did.

10/26/2008 9:20 pm (et) Susansweet: Yes I was yelling at the book about that time , no don't let the other guy lead . Leave Lee there .

10/26/2008 9:20 pm (et) Babs: The bickering over command made me think they were Confederates.

10/26/2008 9:20 pm (et) Susansweet: lol Babs

10/26/2008 9:21 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: No, the Confederates listened to their Lee.

10/26/2008 9:21 pm (et) Susansweet: Very true.

10/26/2008 9:22 pm (et) Babs: Linc, I was thinking of out West where they were Leeless.

10/26/2008 9:22 pm (et) Susansweet: Thing about these men that amazes me too is the names. Sons of Colonials of Mass.

10/26/2008 9:23 pm (et) 20thMass: I am not sure why they would think Cogswell was Lee's senior since lee had been a regimental commander longer.

10/26/2008 9:23 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Well, they were only 2 generations removed from the founders I think.

10/26/2008 9:23 pm (et) ole: If we're still talking about the Harvard Regiment, it's not surprising that the names would be along the lines of the names during the Revolutions.

10/26/2008 9:24 pm (et) Susansweet: Yes but it still gets me to see names Putnam , Revere etc

10/26/2008 9:24 pm (et) Babs: I am confused (What's new?). On the bottom of page 61 it says. Lee ordered Crowninshield to scout the north woods. It was the SOUTH woods wasn't it?

10/26/2008 9:25 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: No, Babs the book is correct I believe. If you look on the map, north is to your left.

10/26/2008 9:26 pm (et) Susansweet: Man was confusing in that it is sideways look at the compass.

10/26/2008 9:26 pm (et) ole: I hate maps that put the north anywhere but at the top. Limited spatial relationship.

10/26/2008 9:27 pm (et) Babs: Yes, but Crowninshield was Co D which is on the right or south.

10/26/2008 9:27 pm (et) mobile_96: Agree with the confusion, most books put north toward the top of the page.

10/26/2008 9:27 pm (et) 20thMass: I believe that was before everyone had arrived on the battlefield and they could maneuver better.

10/26/2008 9:27 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: What's hard to believe is that anyone would want a confrontation in a location that had almost no way out.

10/26/2008 9:28 pm (et) Susansweet: By the way just to set the record straight Baker recruited California Brigade from Philly not California.

10/26/2008 9:29 pm (et) Babs: I wondered if he went north first and then moved south, but I never saw that explained. Seems like he would have had to cross through several other companies.

10/26/2008 9:29 pm (et) 20thMass: Baker wanted to have a brigade with a California connection but recruited men from Pennsylvania and New York for a regiment that would later become so big it became a brigade.

10/26/2008 9:29 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I think the map shows the location of the companies DURING the battle, not prior to the battle. Couldn't have kept track of the battle without the map.

10/26/2008 9:30 pm (et) Susansweet: I kept checking the map to see where everyone was .

10/26/2008 9:30 pm (et) Babs: Yes. The map as necessary even though most of the words are upside down.

10/26/2008 9:31 pm (et) Susansweet: Again have to turn it sideways.

10/26/2008 9:32 pm (et) Susansweet: Sometimes I wish they would include a packet of maps that you could hold as you read and refer to.

10/26/2008 9:33 pm (et) Babs: Good idea.

10/26/2008 9:33 pm (et) ole: Expensive ploy, Miss Susan; that's handwork.

10/26/2008 9:33 pm (et) 20thMass: You would not have been able to have an accurate map after the Union began to retreat.

10/26/2008 9:33 pm (et) Susansweet: I know Ole . That's why sometimes I use the copy machine if I can get to one .

10/26/2008 9:34 pm (et) Susansweet: True Coly.

10/26/2008 9:34 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Map is still better than the ones in J Davis. Susan, the removable map is an excellent idea. I always have to put bookmarks in map pages. Does anyone have any comments on how the 20th Mass held up under fire during their first battle. I thought they did very well considering the outcome.

10/26/2008 9:35 pm (et) Babs: For the most part they were brave.

10/26/2008 9:36 pm (et) Babs: We should talk about the artillery to keep Dave awake.

10/26/2008 9:36 pm (et) 20thMass: For their first time they did okay but Lt. Charles Whittier is quoted at the end of the chapter as saying that any Lieutenent would have done better six months later.

10/26/2008 9:36 pm (et) mobile_96: Much better in Morgan's book on the battle, if interested in the battle, its a excellent account.

10/26/2008 9:36 pm (et) ole: Conduct during the first battle is always interesting.

10/26/2008 9:36 pm (et) amhistoryguy: I'm awake.

10/26/2008 9:37 pm (et) Babs: There were three cannon.

10/26/2008 9:37 pm (et) Susansweet: I have a question that is driving me crazy . It says Page 74 a line reorganized as a left facing column would likely carry rifles at a right shoulder shift. What does this mean.

10/26/2008 9:37 pm (et) 20thMass: And they were facing veterans of Bull Run.

10/26/2008 9:38 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Probably true 20th, but I almost feel like they were set up. Here they were, first battle. No easy way of retreat, no decent artillery and no reinforcements.

10/26/2008 9:38 pm (et) 20thMass: Susan, that had me scratching my head too.

10/26/2008 9:38 pm (et) mobile_96: And sent only because no fight was expected.

10/26/2008 9:39 pm (et) Susansweet: I have been asking the right shoulder shift for two years now and have gotten a different answer each time I ask.

10/26/2008 9:39 pm (et) Babs: Bad scouting reports.

10/26/2008 9:40 pm (et) Susansweet: Now add to it the left facing and I am totally lost.

10/26/2008 9:41 pm (et) Babs: Susan, I'm guessing you tend to carry your gun on the opposite shoulder of the way you facing so your nose doesn't stick to the barrel.

10/26/2008 9:41 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Sounds like they were marching ahead, facing left, with rifles on their right shoulders. Which way were they marching and why face left?

10/26/2008 9:41 pm (et) 20thMass: The only way I can figure is that if one is in line shooting with the gun on their left shoulder and the guy next to him is on the right shoulder it could magnify the sound the gun makes and be hard on their ears.

10/26/2008 9:42 pm (et) 20thMass: I am just guessing. :)

10/26/2008 9:44 pm (et) 20thMass: Before we move to chapter to I would like to mention Captain Dreher. My God what a horrible wound to have.

10/26/2008 9:44 pm (et) Susansweet: Found this (First motion.) Detach the piece perpendicularly from the shoulder with the right hand, and seize it with the left between the lower band and guide-sight, raise the piece, the left hand at the height of the shoulder and four inches from it; place, at the same time, the right hand on the butt, the beak between the first two fingers, the other two fingers under the butt plate.

10/26/2008 9:44 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I sure hope the men who had to fire past the artillery were good shots.

10/26/2008 9:44 pm (et) ole: Virtually no left-handed shooters, I think.

10/26/2008 9:45 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Yes, and it said he lived, which is even more amazing. I can't imagine how.

10/26/2008 9:46 pm (et) 20thMass: So Lee's comment was more about the men losing there head in battle than anything else.

10/26/2008 9:46 pm (et) Babs: Dave, the cannon was positioned so that when it recoiled, it rolled downhill. Probably not the recommended set up.

10/26/2008 9:46 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Which comment was that.

10/26/2008 9:48 pm (et) 20thMass: Lee's comment about the soldiers not having the gun on the right shoulder when facing left.

10/26/2008 9:49 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Probably not the desired effect, however if that was the only position they could fire against enemy troops, I suppose they would just have to deal with it, attach the prolonge ropes and do some pulling to get the guns back into position.

10/26/2008 9:49 pm (et) Babs: Of course the artillery men and horses were shot.

10/26/2008 9:50 pm (et) Susansweet: No wasn't Lee's comment. The author said they were carrying rifles in Right Shoulder shift position.

10/26/2008 9:50 pm (et) Susansweet: And the column was facing left

10/26/2008 9:50 pm (et) ole: The shooters and the horses were the first order of priority.

10/26/2008 9:51 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Sounds like the artillery was very inexperienced, along with everyone else.

10/26/2008 9:51 pm (et) 20thMass: Thanks for the correction Susan. I have the book with me on Page 74 and read it really fast and misread it.

10/26/2008 9:51 pm (et) ole: Not surprising.

10/26/2008 9:52 pm (et) Susansweet: And the horse took off with the limber when the men were shot.

10/26/2008 9:52 pm (et) Susansweet: Next reenactment I go to I am having someone do a right shoulder shift for me.

10/26/2008 9:54 pm (et) 20thMass: Amazingly these inexperienced regiments like the 20th Mass would do some amazing things in the war.

10/26/2008 9:54 pm (et) Susansweet: It was a learning experience Coly. They learned as they went along

10/26/2008 9:55 pm (et) ole: You find that throughout the war, Coly. Some of the greenest turned in some of the most remarkable fights.

10/26/2008 9:55 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: One of the most moving parts of the chapter was the way the officers would not leave their men.

10/26/2008 9:55 pm (et) 20thMass: With those thoughts lets move to Chapter 2.

10/26/2008 9:55 pm (et) ole: Don't have the foggiest why that should be, but it was.

10/26/2008 9:55 pm (et) Susansweet: Page 68 says it all . Federal inexperience was everywhere.

10/26/2008 9:56 pm (et) 20thMass: Colonel Stone was in trouble after the battle but this regiment had problems of its own which brings us to Francis palfrey.

10/26/2008 9:58 pm (et) Susansweet: I like what Holmes said about him.

10/26/2008 9:58 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Chapter 6 - politics, politics. Even back then. 

10/26/2008 9:58 pm (et) Susansweet: What little soldier he is isn't much.

10/26/2008 9:59 pm (et) Susansweet: Barlett does all the work.

10/26/2008 10:00 pm (et) 20thMass: Palfrey was an anti abolitionist and even his fellow anti-abolitionist didn't like him.

10/26/2008 10:00 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I was surprised that anti-abolitionist feeling was so strong in Mass.

10/26/2008 10:01 pm (et) Babs: Me too.

10/26/2008 10:01 pm (et) ole: Gotta remember, Fan, that Massachusetts was only thought to be an abolitionist haven.

10/26/2008 10:01 pm (et) Susansweet: The other quote about him from the author is great too. he would risk great things for small stakes.

10/26/2008 10:02 pm (et) Susansweet: The large majority of Massachusetts were Irish . and other immigrants. They didn't want their jobs going to freed blacks who would work for lower wages than the low wages they were making

10/26/2008 10:04 pm (et) ole: Broad brush, Miss Susan! Extreme generalization.

10/26/2008 10:04 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I thought they would be indifferent maybe. Reading about the captives, it was interesting how much different the officers were treated than the troops.

10/26/2008 10:04 pm (et) Susansweet: I know Ole

10/26/2008 10:04 pm (et) 20thMass: And the 20th Mass was a good representation of the population of Massachusetts.

10/26/2008 10:05 pm (et) Susansweet: But many in New England especially in Mass around Lowell were factory workers who didn't want to lose jobs

10/26/2008 10:05 pm (et) 20thMass: Irish, Germans, Sailors, Copperheads, abolitionists, rich, poor etc

10/26/2008 10:06 pm (et) Susansweet: Or maybe just didn't have time to worry about Southern Slaves.

10/26/2008 10:06 pm (et) Babs: Prison experience made an abolitionist out of Revere.

10/26/2008 10:06 pm (et) Susansweet: But they did respond to the call.

10/26/2008 10:07 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Yeah, Babs, That would do it for me too.

10/26/2008 10:07 pm (et) 20thMass: The hell they went through in Libby Prison stuck with Lee the rest of his life.

10/26/2008 10:07 pm (et) ole: I don't see the connection.

10/26/2008 10:08 pm (et) Susansweet: Which connection Ole?

10/26/2008 10:08 pm (et) Babs: Ole, While they were in prison every Saturday they witnessed then "whipping post" from their window.

10/26/2008 10:08 pm (et) ole: Prison experience vs. abolitionist.

10/26/2008 10:08 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I can't imagine making sacrifices for your men the way Lee did and then having to pull names to see who would really suffer, maybe die.

10/26/2008 10:09 pm (et) Susansweet: Oh right I remember reading that.

10/26/2008 10:09 pm (et) Babs: Ole, They had to listen to the screaming.

10/26/2008 10:10 pm (et) mobile_96: When he saw the whipping the slave woman got, and others, every Friday afternoon.

10/26/2008 10:10 pm (et) Susansweet: That was an emotional page to read about the name drawing . Reminded me of Andrews Raiders when we read Stealing the General .

10/26/2008 10:10 pm (et) ole: I'd really like to read more about the Harvard Regiment at Ball's Bluff.

10/26/2008 10:10 pm (et) Susansweet: And what I have read about the Meir Campaign in Mexico with the white and black balls

10/26/2008 10:10 pm (et) 20thMass: I don't believe Revere believed in slavery to begin with but was not what you would call a "hardcore" abolitionist" but whipping day may have sent him over the top.

10/26/2008 10:11 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Ole, someone mentioned another book on the battle at the beginning of the chat.

10/26/2008 10:11 pm (et) Susansweet: Mobile did.

10/26/2008 10:11 pm (et) 20thMass: A Little Short of Boats by James Morgan.

10/26/2008 10:12 pm (et) Susansweet: No no no , hands over face no more books.

10/26/2008 10:12 pm (et) mobile_96: Same book we read here sometime back, even had Morgan attend the sessions.

10/26/2008 10:12 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: It wasn't just the whipping, but the sounds and the stench from the floor below told them how badly the slaves were being treated.

10/26/2008 10:13 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Susan, I have another title for you after the chat.

10/26/2008 10:13 pm (et) Susansweet: agghhhhh

10/26/2008 10:14 pm (et) Susansweet: lol

10/26/2008 10:14 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: So many books - - so little time! What do you make of Macy and the fugitive slaves.

10/26/2008 10:15 pm (et) mobile_96: 1st, was it actually true, as there seems to be some question about it.

10/26/2008 10:15 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Promise, Ole, I'll never mention another book.

10/26/2008 10:16 pm (et) Babs: Sure did start a brouhaha.

10/26/2008 10:16 pm (et) mobile_96: 2nd, it was pretty common before 63, to give, or even send slaves back to their owners

10/26/2008 10:16 pm (et) Babs: Macy, no Ole.

10/26/2008 10:16 pm (et) 20thMass: Macy was following the orders of Palfrey and Stone although he shouldn't have done it.

10/26/2008 10:17 pm (et) Susansweet: Elizabeth Van Lew was amazing woman in Richmond . Would like to read more about her.

10/26/2008 10:17 pm (et) 20thMass: The incident with Macy is true and what made it worse was that Andrew had just been promoted by Andrew who was now under fire for the incident

10/26/2008 10:18 pm (et) 20thMass: I mean Macy was promoted by Andrew.

10/26/2008 10:18 pm (et) Babs: Maybe we can read her bio down the line some time.

10/26/2008 10:18 pm (et) Susansweet: Mobile I have read that before that slaves were given back before Emancipation Proclamation.

10/26/2008 10:18 pm (et) mobile_96: Susan, correct

10/26/2008 10:18 pm (et) Susansweet: Might be a good one to read , don't know title of one on her.

10/26/2008 10:18 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Boy, that whole thing blew up out of proportion. They all acted like spoiled kids, forwarding those "confidential" letters back and forth.

10/26/2008 10:19 pm (et) Susansweet: Matter of fact Fremont got in trouble for freeing slaves.

10/26/2008 10:19 pm (et) Babs: There is one mentioned in the footnotes about her. I think it came out on '03.

10/26/2008 10:19 pm (et) Susansweet: Fan happened all the time . Read about Sibley or John Bell Hood on the Confederate side.

10/26/2008 10:20 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I also would like to know more about Elizabeth Van Lew. I think I read about her in Glory to Ashes and thought she was amazing then.

10/26/2008 10:20 pm (et) Susansweet: Oh good will add it to the looooong list.

10/26/2008 10:20 pm (et) Susansweet: Crazy Bet they called her didn't they?

10/26/2008 10:20 pm (et) 20thMass: If Palfrey would have just asked Macy about the fugitive slaves instead of forwarding Andrew's letter to of all people Stone the situation would have probably died down.

10/26/2008 10:20 pm (et) Babs: Yes.

10/26/2008 10:22 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: At the end of the chapter we find out that the prisoners were released. Do we know why or is that forthcoming?

10/26/2008 10:23 pm (et) 20thMass: They really don't get to much into it but I think Lincoln was under pressure to let the his prisoners go.

10/26/2008 10:25 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: In reading these books, I'm amazed at all the situations that come up where the government needs to treat the Confederacy like an enemy nation, but can't.

10/26/2008 10:26 pm (et) 20thMass: One point to add about what Macy did was that he had his own company of Germans do the dirty work and that angered the Germans. Hallowell and Macy nearly got in a fight over it.

10/26/2008 10:26 pm (et) Babs: That would be admitting they were a nation.

10/26/2008 10:27 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Yeah, Babs. Lincoln was in uncharted waters.

10/26/2008 10:28 pm (et) 20thMass: Lincoln was green himself.

10/26/2008 10:28 pm (et) Babs: And the current was fast.

10/26/2008 10:28 pm (et) Susansweet: Exactly.

10/26/2008 10:28 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Good one, Babs.

10/26/2008 10:29 pm (et) 20thMass: What did you guys think about Palfrey wanting a Phantom Regiment.

10/26/2008 10:29 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: What a shame that Lee had to come back to such a divided regiment. I'm sure he was glad to be back, but it must have been discouraging.

10/26/2008 10:30 pm (et) mobile_96: And had to take into account the retribution that was threatened on Union men.

10/26/2008 10:31 pm (et) mobile_96: Was an interesting thought, stand-by officers.

10/26/2008 10:31 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Palfrey. Where did this guy come from? What a jerk.

10/26/2008 10:32 pm (et) 20thMass: You would have just been replacing experienced officers with green officers

10/26/2008 10:32 pm (et) mobile_96: But where does he get the "experienced men" he'd need to keep in it.

10/26/2008 10:32 pm (et) Susansweet: I agree Fan.

10/26/2008 10:32 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I think Palfrey thought the regulations were for everyone but himself.

10/26/2008 10:33 pm (et) mobile_96:Tthinking the same way, coly.

10/26/2008 10:33 pm (et) 20thMass: Palfrey believed that "blue blood" men would make better officers than experienced soldiers. It was a class thing.

10/26/2008 10:34 pm (et) mobile_96: Sure glad all officers didn't think like he did.

10/26/2008 10:34 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Was it Palfrey that never forgave the Germans and wanted one of them to fix his shoes?

10/26/2008 10:34 pm (et) Susansweet: Right , nothing works like experience even for blue bloods.

10/26/2008 10:35 pm (et) 20thMass: I think that was Macy, LF.

10/26/2008 10:35 pm (et) Susansweet: Macy ordered a tailor to mend his suit.

10/26/2008 10:35 pm (et) Babs: Yup. Macy.

10/26/2008 10:35 pm (et) Susansweet: The tailor said I didn't join the army as a tailor.

10/26/2008 10:36 pm (et) Susansweet: I love that comment.

10/26/2008 10:36 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Nope, it was Macy and it was Corporal Wagner who was, indeed, a tailor. Hooray for him.

10/26/2008 10:36 pm (et) Susansweet: And Macy never forgot and assigned Wagner onerous duty.

10/26/2008 10:37 pm (et) Susansweet: Bet he had latrine duty.

10/26/2008 10:38 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: The men grew up, the officers didn't.

10/26/2008 10:39 pm (et) mobile_96: Some officers, there were others that grew up quickly.

10/26/2008 10:39 pm (et) 20thMass: Without Lee it was like kids when their parents were out of the house.

10/26/2008 10:39 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: True

10/26/2008 10:39 pm (et) Susansweet: Regiment divided in half those that fought for abolitionist thoughts and those that fought for the Union.

10/26/2008 10:39 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: What do you think of Governor Andrew? I like him.

10/26/2008 10:40 pm (et) Susansweet: He didn't fall for Pafrey

10/26/2008 10:41 pm (et) 20thMass: I like Andrew although he had his hands full.

10/26/2008 10:41 pm (et) Susansweet: I liked him too.

10/26/2008 10:42 pm (et) Susansweet: He's trying to run his state and has to deal with the army problems too.

10/26/2008 10:42 pm (et) Babs: I kept wanting to call Pafrey Paltry.

10/26/2008 10:43 pm (et) Susansweet: He was Paltry Pafrey.

10/26/2008 10:43 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I liked him because he didn't back down and to his case all the way to the top.

10/26/2008 10:43 pm (et) Babs: I'm guessing some guys in the 20th may have called him that.

10/26/2008 10:43 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I'll bet they called him worse.

10/26/2008 10:44 pm (et) Susansweet: Ya think? lol

10/26/2008 10:44 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: He reminds me of Wigfall.

10/26/2008 10:45 pm (et) Susansweet: Yeah if he had been at fort Sumter he would have been knocking on the door.

10/26/2008 10:45 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I was glad to see that Andrews' appointments were made in the end. I don't see how someone could sit on them, even if he didn't agree.

10/26/2008 10:45 pm (et) mobile_96: Or hung out over the casemate, during the cannon duel.

10/26/2008 10:46 pm (et) Susansweet: Yeah that is a good one Mobile.

10/26/2008 10:48 pm (et) 20thMass: I believe we can call it a night on the book chat for tonight. Thanks for participating.

10/26/2008 10:48 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: It's going to be interesting to see ow the regiment handles the next battles. It certainly isn't the same regiment that went into Balls Bluff.

10/26/2008 10:48 pm (et) Susansweet: Good Job Coly

10/26/2008 10:49 pm (et) mobile_96: Interesting discussion, as usual.