Book Chat
Lincoln At Gettysburg
The Words That Remade America
Garry Wills

This chat took place in the Civil War Home Chatroom on 11/21/05 and covered Chapters 4 & 5

11/21/2005 9:05 pm (et) ks: Well then...
We begin tonight with a look at Chapter 4 Revolution in Thought and a look at the difference in thinking between Theodore Parker and A. Lincoln. Shall we? :)

11/21/2005 9:05 pm (et) Babs: Again I am only half done with the homework.. I feel like the hind end of a slinky.  I hurry to catch up and then the front part moves ahead on me again.

11/21/2005 9:06 pm (et) ks: Hey, Babs, that's the end we're discussing. ;) You be fine.

11/21/2005 9:07 pm (et) Babs: If I can't think of anything else to say, I'll talk about last week's homework.

11/21/2005 9:07 pm (et) amhistoryguy: I understood the difference in thinking between A. Lincoln and T. Parker, but I'm not sure I understand the relevance in regards to the Gettysburg Address.

11/21/2005 9:08 pm (et) Basecat: Interesting chapter, and glad Wills used other speeches to show how they affected how Abe wrote his own speeches.

11/21/2005 9:08 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Parker died in 1860

11/21/2005 9:09 pm (et) Basecat: amhg...Just a hunch here...Parker was willing to let the south go, as in good riddance, while Abe in his GB speech wrote that with all Americans in his mind...To me that is the difference.

11/21/2005 9:09 pm (et) jimtno: Good evening all. A night late, but you are talking about a book I have read. SO what I can remember I shall pitch in where I have some thing to add.

11/21/2005 9:10 pm (et) ks: I read it as part of the attempt to illustrate the change in thought process, that "revolution" referred to in the chapter title.

11/21/2005 9:10 pm (et) mobile_96: Lincoln never considered the south was in any shape or form Separated from the Union

11/21/2005 9:10 pm (et) amhistoryguy: The though crossed my mind in reading this chapter, that the title of the book is far more narrow than the subject matter addressed. This is a book that is more about Lincoln and his thinking, than many other books supposedly about Lincoln that I have read.

11/21/2005 9:10 pm (et) Basecat: BTW...Parker used an eulogy to rip Webster. Not many eulogies I have attended were done like that.

11/21/2005 9:11 pm (et) ks: But that said, it was a confusing chapter for me, in part because I wasn't prepared to read about so much more than the GA. And now that I focus, I see AHG stating something similar about the book.

11/21/2005 9:11 pm (et) Basecat: Mobile, which is a fine point, and Wills made sure he got that across in many places using the words Abe used.

11/21/2005 9:12 pm (et) jimtno: Base, I have never been to a funeral where the dearly departed get torn to shreds. Will confess, the thought of Parker doing that kind of ticked me off.

11/21/2005 9:12 pm (et) CWgal: Well just for my 2 cents worth. I think Wills put a whole lot more thought into the GB address than Lincoln did. I think he has over analyzed it. I am sure Lincoln wasn't trying to establish a new style or copy anyone from the past.

11/21/2005 9:12 pm (et) ks: Wasn't that interesting to read, mobile? Of course I knew that from what I've read of Lincoln's words on the war and the matter of secession. But I'd never seen the subject so thoroughly dissected as in this chapter.

11/21/2005 9:13 pm (et) Basecat: Jim...Especially since Parker was a Webster fan for the most of his life. Kind of an odd way to say goodbye to someone, IMHO.

11/21/2005 9:13 pm (et) amhistoryguy: I agree with you on that CWgal - but that said, it does make you think.

11/21/2005 9:14 pm (et) Basecat: Gal...In some ways I agree with you, as Abe was only supposed to give a few appropriate remarks...IMHO...he spent time wondering how he could get his message across in the time given him.

11/21/2005 9:14 pm (et) Babs: Ahh but Webster had "feet of clay" and Parker didn't forgive him for falling short of the ideal he expected.

11/21/2005 9:14 pm (et) CWgal: AHG, I can appreciate a book that makes me think about why Lincoln was trying to say when he wrote it, but at this point in the book I think Wills has missed that side all together

11/21/2005 9:15 pm (et) jimtno: To me as a side bar, the thought occurred to me that Lincoln was far more of complex man then I ever thought before I read the book.

11/21/2005 9:15 pm (et) ks: CWgal, do you get the impression that Wills had a conclusion in mind and then went about searching for any way to support and prove it? ;) I've had that impression at times. That's not to say that I don't enjoy or value the book.

11/21/2005 9:15 pm (et) mobile_96: But then again, Lincoln had years to formulate his speech writing.

11/21/2005 9:15 pm (et) amhistoryguy: I came away thinking that the GA in many ways, including the brevity of it, was written as much for us today, as it was written as "a few appropriate remarks" then.

11/21/2005 9:16 pm (et) Basecat: Babs, and yet earlier he said that politicos like Webster had to walk a fine line with speeches and decisions because they represented the people...and yet he ripped him after he passed away.

11/21/2005 9:16 pm (et) mobile_96: Have to agree that he was trying to say a lot in only a few words.

11/21/2005 9:16 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Had those same lines been included in a three hour speech, I doubt that we would value them as we do.

11/21/2005 9:16 pm (et) CWgal: Oh yes ks......But I think he went way too deep to prove a point.

11/21/2005 9:16 pm (et) Babs: I agree with KS. I get the feeling that Wills had in mind his conclusion as he did his analysis.

11/21/2005 9:17 pm (et) jimtno: AMHG, I would agree with that assessment whole heartedly. It was his way of trying to look to future generations and put the events and the efforts of those who gave that last full measure would be understood in that context.

11/21/2005 9:18 pm (et) ks: We all probably read and heard the Gettysburg Address many times, but Wills give us SO MUCH more to consider about the words chosen and puts them in the context of the time. Fascinating.

11/21/2005 9:18 pm (et) CWgal: I do agree with the fact that Lincoln was a much more complex thinker than most people give him credit for.

11/21/2005 9:19 pm (et) Basecat: ks...and to me, its obvious he used things from previous speeches by those he most admired.

11/21/2005 9:19 pm (et) jimtno: CW, I don't want to drift from the book, but what did Little Mac call him? A small minded man? Gezzzzz I dont think so.... ;-)

11/21/2005 9:19 pm (et) Babs: CW, I agree Wills could have learned some brevity from Abe, but then he wouldn't have had enough text for a book.

11/21/2005 9:19 pm (et) mobile_96: And makes us look at the Address in a completely different way than we have before, looks like other speeches will look and read differently now.

11/21/2005 9:19 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Lincoln hid his depth very well.

11/21/2005 9:19 pm (et) CWgal: ks, I think that is just the point that Wills missed.  How does he know what Lincoln's intent was buy choosing the words he did?. Just because it sounds familiar with other speeches of the time, actually means nothing.

11/21/2005 9:19 pm (et) mobile_96: Very true Babs

11/21/2005 9:20 pm (et) Basecat: Jim, Also think it was a message to the South as well, in fact more pointed message to the southern people.

11/21/2005 9:20 pm (et) jimtno: Base, Hadn't thought of that one.. Good point.

11/21/2005 9:20 pm (et) CWgal: jtno....well in regards to Little Mac....we can consider the source :D

11/21/2005 9:20 pm (et) mobile_96: amhg, seems Lincoln's gift was to be able to speak to the people, not down to them as so many others have done.

11/21/2005 9:21 pm (et) CWgal: Babs :D good point

11/21/2005 9:21 pm (et) ks: I can't go so far as to agree with those words meaning "nothing", CWgal. Particularly where Wills illustrates the evolution in thought.

11/21/2005 9:21 pm (et) jimtno: CW LOL! True oh so true!

11/21/2005 9:22 pm (et) Basecat: Gal...You have to take it for a grain of salt...Wills interpretations of his thoughts as to what Abe was thinking...Only way to read a book like this, and like you brings up more questions than answers IMHO.

11/21/2005 9:22 pm (et) ks: How about the section dealing with the Declaration of Independence as the "founding document"? That's certainly not something I'd previously considered.

11/21/2005 9:23 pm (et) jimtno: One of the things that we all seem to miss, is that Lincoln was very well read for a man of that age. The man just gobbled up books including what was considered the classics of that age. So it would not surprise me to hear/see some say he took his cue from others previous writings.

11/21/2005 9:23 pm (et) CWgal: ks I didn't mean that Lincoln's words meant nothing. I was just saying "if it sounds like someone else's speech" ..THAT means "nothing" I think Lincoln was certainly not copying anyone. He has a point to make and did it extremely well in just a few words... Unlike most politicians.

11/21/2005 9:23 pm (et) Basecat: ks...On that point, am with Abe on that one, and share his opinion on it as being THE document.

11/21/2005 9:24 pm (et) CWgal: ks speaking of which about the Declaration of Independence. Did you see the article on CWi today regarding that very thing?

11/21/2005 9:24 pm (et) jimtno: A few politicians of our day would do well to remeber that! Good point KS.

11/21/2005 9:24 pm (et) ks: I knew what you meant, CWgal. :) I thought you made that clear. I meant I tend to give credence to things Wills says about different influences upon Lincoln.

11/21/2005 9:25 pm (et) mobile_96: Agree, the Constitution was the means to reach the truths in the Declaration of Independence.

11/21/2005 9:25 pm (et) ks: No. Haven't looked at CWi today. Guess I will. *Ctrl + N and fetching another window*

11/21/2005 9:26 pm (et) Basecat: Have a hard time reading about State's rights, when the Declaration was for all in this country. All who served side by side in the Revolution. The original of the people, by the people, and for the people.

11/21/2005 9:26 pm (et) jimtno: CW, You hit the nail on the head. Once again we are not looking at some one who was a country bumkin, a no nothing. The man was smart and very well educated. How could he not have been influence by those who have gone before him? I know I have been affected by Lincoln's writing along with many others.

11/21/2005 9:26 pm (et) CWgal: I think that was the problem others were having also Base.

11/21/2005 9:26 pm (et) ks: You referring to the news article "The Radicalism of the Gettysburg Address"? Guessing you may be, CWgal.

11/21/2005 9:27 pm (et) Basecat: Gal...Just wonder when that majority feeling changed...which of course Wills fails to discuss, and should have, IMHO.

11/21/2005 9:27 pm (et) Babs: I thought the excerpt from a Webster speech talking about the patriots of the Revolution being from all parts of the country was interesting.

11/21/2005 9:28 pm (et) CWgal: Yes that is the one ks.

11/21/2005 9:28 pm (et) Vickie: I don't think Lincoln was thinking of Greek writing forms or anyone else's speeches when he wrote it. I think he just wrote it in the way that came natural, which would be sort of the same way others wrote at that time. If that makes any sense.

11/21/2005 9:28 pm (et) Basecat: Mobile...and makes me want to delve into more deeply into the Articles of Confederation.

11/21/2005 9:29 pm (et) CWgal: I agree Base. Would have been time better spent IMHO than comparing notes from other speech makers.

11/21/2005 9:29 pm (et) CWgal: Perfect sense Vickie.

11/21/2005 9:29 pm (et) Basecat: Vickie...makes a lot of sense, and I share your opinion. Know when I write things...I barely think of Plato or Socrates when I do so..;)

11/21/2005 9:29 pm (et) ks: Thank you for pointing that out, CWgal. Very relevant to our reading. And if I'm not the ONLY one to have missed reading it, DO check it out in the "News Section".

11/21/2005 9:30 pm (et) CWgal: Base :D

11/21/2005 9:30 pm (et) mobile_96: Base, I've been 'reaching back' quite a bit lately, found a site with the Webster-Haynes debates.

11/21/2005 9:31 pm (et) Basecat: Mobile...Yet another thing I want to delve into as well...and just from the snippets we got from the book.

11/21/2005 9:31 pm (et) ks: As well read as Lincoln was I'd find it conceivable that he WAS influenced by the Greek writing style, the culture of death, the Transcendentalists and other influences we've read about. :) Makes sense to me.

11/21/2005 9:31 pm (et) CWgal: I wonder also when that view changed Base. I can see the confusion about our forefathers fighting as one nation and what as now tearing it apart

11/21/2005 9:32 pm (et) jimtno: ks :-)

11/21/2005 9:32 pm (et) Babs: Base, Abe may have read more Plato and Socrates than you or I.

11/21/2005 9:32 pm (et) ks: I'd add to that that probably most of US aren't familiar with those things, but I don't doubt at all that Lincoln knew of and was influenced by them.

11/21/2005 9:33 pm (et) Vickie: He may have been influenced by those things ,but I imagine all were influenced by those things in those days.  So it would just come natural, not something he purposely had to think about.

11/21/2005 9:33 pm (et) Vickie: Its just the way people wrote and spoke then.

11/21/2005 9:33 pm (et) jimtno: All think about the line "Shall have a new birth of freedom"... It indicates to me that to him something had died! Or am I over examining this.. Just throw that out there Re to culture of death thought.

11/21/2005 9:34 pm (et) amhistoryguy: I started out thinking that he would not have been so influenced ks, but I have since changed my mind - I agree that it is likely that Lincoln was influenced by the Greek style.

11/21/2005 9:34 pm (et) Basecat: ks...Not denying the influences at all, as you can see them in his writings. Just don't agree that as intimated by Wells, he would have to think about them when he wrote a speech. They already were a part of him, and he wrote what came naturally to him.

11/21/2005 9:34 pm (et) jimtno: Vickie my point exactly! Good one.

11/21/2005 9:34 pm (et) ks: I see your distinction, Vickie. I still wouldn't think "all" were influenced by those things. Not "all" were literate. Certainly not all were well read even it they could read.

11/21/2005 9:35 pm (et) CWgal: THAT is what I have been trying to say Base. :-) Thank you.

11/21/2005 9:35 pm (et) Vickie: I can just picture Lincoln sitting there diagramming his speech ;-)

11/21/2005 9:35 pm (et) CWgal: LOL Vickie.

11/21/2005 9:35 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Wills book tends to make a person search out other sources of Lincoln influence and further examples of these influences.

11/21/2005 9:36 pm (et) Basecat: Babs...:) Am no expert on Plato or Socrates, but I bet each attended a toga party at sometime during their lives...Sorry...I digress.:)

11/21/2005 9:36 pm (et) Vickie: :-)

11/21/2005 9:37 pm (et) Babs: jtno, I don't think it necessary that something would have died. A new sibling can be born into a family without the older child dieing.

11/21/2005 9:37 pm (et) CWgal: I am just believing (hoping) that by the end of this book, all this groundwork will serve some purpose. :D

11/21/2005 9:37 pm (et) Basecat: Vickie, but I can see him having long discussions with Hay on the way to use language.

11/21/2005 9:37 pm (et) jimtno: Base You know me well enough to know that I think not only was he impacted by Greek writings, but also another book he had read quite a bit of by then. The Bible.

11/21/2005 9:37 pm (et) ks: :) I can't (picture him diagramming his speech). But I can imagine him having those Greek influences a (as you say) part of himself that he'd attained through reading and study. But not "all" did.

11/21/2005 9:38 pm (et) Basecat: jim...Agreed, and while Abe may not have been a regular church going person, you can tell he was religious in his own way.

11/21/2005 9:38 pm (et) ks: It reads as if those studies of speech with Hay were very much enjoyed by Lincoln. Kind of a mental/lingual exercise program. ;)

11/21/2005 9:39 pm (et) jimtno: I see that point. But the nation had been torn asunder. It was in utter discord, and descended almost into utter chaos. Out of that was to come something new.. For me at least some thing had to die. Thereby the impact of the culture of death on his thoughts. Once again, does my line of thinking seem logical?

11/21/2005 9:39 pm (et) Basecat: ks...Know I am jumping ahead, but wonder if in the book on the Soldier's Home, the author found some things they actually talked about on the carriage ride to the place.

11/21/2005 9:40 pm (et) ks: Something that jumps out at me as I've read this book is how limited my own knowledge is when speaking of transcendentalists, Unitarians, agnostics and more. I read and feel pretty darned inadequate without my dictionary and Google. ;)

11/21/2005 9:41 pm (et) ks: Time and Pinkser will tell, Basecat. ;)

11/21/2005 9:41 pm (et) Basecat: Jim, but to him, The Union was still intact...and was not asunder...It was not a war, but a rebellion of those who still belonged to the Union.

11/21/2005 9:42 pm (et) Basecat: ks..:) Very true...and something to look forward to..:)

11/21/2005 9:42 pm (et) Babs: jtno, Yes, it is logical.  Like a plant dieing down in the winter and being "reborn" in the spring. I see your explanation as one possible one.

11/21/2005 9:43 pm (et) ks: Any other thoughts on the Revolution in Thought? If not, we need to get to the Revolution in STYLE. A revolution in literary style...again something I'd never considered when reading the GA.

11/21/2005 9:43 pm (et) jimtno: But why the reference then to a "New Birth"? That's biblical in thought as well. New Life, new birth, reborn comes to mind. Resurrected is another term that comes to mind.

11/21/2005 9:43 pm (et) Vickie: I'm pretty inadequate about those things ks and many other things. only so much time to read and only so much room in this little brain :-)

11/21/2005 9:44 pm (et) ks: Because it's in dying that we are reborn? The analogy just made sense to me, Jim.

11/21/2005 9:44 pm (et) Basecat: Jim...New birth of Freedom to me implies all who lived here...not just the whites.

11/21/2005 9:44 pm (et) ks: So god bless the search engines, huh, Vickie? ;)

11/21/2005 9:44 pm (et) Vickie: this certainly doesn't make me want to learn Greek or any of those other big words;-)

11/21/2005 9:44 pm (et) jimtno: Babs, I think that's exactly my point.

11/21/2005 9:44 pm (et) Vickie: That's for sure Google Google

11/21/2005 9:45 pm (et) jimtno: KS Yes, I would agree with that.

11/21/2005 9:45 pm (et) mobile_96: Maybe a new birth of the national ideals, instead of being split between different ideals?

11/21/2005 9:45 pm (et) Babs: Vickie, It's good for you, like broccoli :^)

11/21/2005 9:45 pm (et) CWgal: One of the things Wills said and I agree and would link this "new birth" was "By accepting the Gettysburg Address, its concept of a single people dedicated to a proposition, we have been changed. Because of it, we live in a different America." How true is that?

11/21/2005 9:46 pm (et) jimtno: I think Lincoln realized because of what had happened not only at GB, but on other fields he realized that the nation that existed before the war was gone, dead, and its understanding of freedom was not just for whites, but for ALL men..........

11/21/2005 9:46 pm (et) ks: And spinach. ;)

11/21/2005 9:46 pm (et) Babs: Maybe the "new birth of freedom" was a reference to freeing the slaves which he chose not to mention directly.

11/21/2005 9:47 pm (et) Vickie: I like broccoli:-)

11/21/2005 9:47 pm (et) Basecat: Gal...Just my opinion...What the speech defines is the union is not a pact of states, but should be known as THE United we are all in this together.

11/21/2005 9:47 pm (et) CWgal: Could be Babs...hadn't really considered that.

11/21/2005 9:48 pm (et) Vickie: That's something to think about Babs.

11/21/2005 9:48 pm (et) Babs: Vickie, It's a big word and maybe Greek. (Ok. I know it's not, you nitpickers)

11/21/2005 9:49 pm (et) CWgal: I think Ken Burns said it best....because of the civil war we no longer say "the United States are" we say "the United States IS" We truly became ONE nation after the civil war

11/21/2005 9:50 pm (et) ks: I really liked that line in the book "When he spoke at the end of the Address...he was saying that America is a people addressing its great assignment as that was accepted in the Declaration."

11/21/2005 9:50 pm (et) Babs: Weird. I always thought that phrase was about freeing the slaves. Probably that's what my fifth grade teacher said.

11/21/2005 9:52 pm (et) ks: Find myself hoping we spend some time at muster at the cemetery and at the actual site of the GA. That's not been a focus for me in previous Gettysburg trips.

11/21/2005 9:52 pm (et) CWgal: Same here ks.

11/21/2005 9:53 pm (et) Babs: I thought Wills gave a good explanation about the Emancipation Proclamation freeing only the slaves in the rebellious areas. That never made sense to me before. I am grateful for Wills thoughts even though I don't buy it. I think it was done for political aims.

11/21/2005 9:53 pm (et) CWgal: I agree Babs.

11/21/2005 9:54 pm (et) Basecat: Know it has nothing to do with the book, but I attended the luminaire ceremony in the cemetery on Saturday, and wished all who are reading this book could have seen what I saw.

11/21/2005 9:54 pm (et) ks: Revolution in STYLE. What were your reactions to reading that line relating to Hemingway's claim about Huck Finn..."It is no greater exaggeration to say that all modern political prose descends from the Gettysburg Address." ?

11/21/2005 9:55 pm (et) CWgal: I wondered about that also ks. I think it has some merit but not sure how much

11/21/2005 9:55 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Wills mentions Lincoln's "bad poetry," but fails to provide an example, so I will - "Abraham Lincoln - his hand and pen - he will be good - but God knows when." - written when AL was 15. When Lincoln was 17 he wrote - "Abraham Lincoln is my name - and with my pen I wrote the same - I wrote in both haste and speed - and left it here for fools to read."

11/21/2005 9:56 pm (et) ks: Wills bit explaining how there was no such thing as "natural speech" made sense until he went into kitten faces. ;)

11/21/2005 9:56 pm (et) CWgal: Was the GB Address an immediate success or was it years after?

11/21/2005 9:56 pm (et) Babs: Base, Do you know if they have determined where the speech was actually given. It seems to me there has been some differing opinions.

11/21/2005 9:56 pm (et) CWgal: AHG :D

11/21/2005 9:56 pm (et) Basecat: A thought on the next Chapter, the part where Abe changed some things that Seward had written for the first inaugural. Seward's ideas were fine, but just could not get them down in written form as Abe could. Fascinating to see how he changed those ideas.

11/21/2005 9:57 pm (et) Basecat: Babs...Not exactly pinpointed, and just a general idea where it was given.

11/21/2005 9:57 pm (et) mobile_96: It took a while for most.

11/21/2005 9:58 pm (et) CWgal: Probably after he died, huh mobile ;-)

11/21/2005 9:58 pm (et) Basecat: Gal...Much like my postings in here, it took a few years to really understand the importance of what he said on that November Day.

11/21/2005 9:58 pm (et) Basecat: :)

11/21/2005 9:59 pm (et) mobile_96: Everett recognized it right away

11/21/2005 9:59 pm (et) CWgal: Base, your postings have been immortalized forever :D

11/21/2005 9:59 pm (et) ks: CWgal, ISTM that I've read comments from some present or who read the text and immediately responded. Also read accounts relating disappointment in so few words. Doesn't really answer your question except to say... "Don't know." ;)

11/21/2005 9:59 pm (et) Babs: {slipping out as I have not read this chapter.]

11/21/2005 9:59 pm (et) CWgal: Mobile maybe Everett was just in awe that Lincoln said so much more in a shorter period of time and with less words than he did :D

11/21/2005 10:00 pm (et) ks: Only we don't have your postings for longer than a week, Base. So if we see the merit, we be darned perceptive...or something. ;) 

11/21/2005 10:00 pm (et) jimtno:  While visiting with the curator of the Evergreen cemetery several years ago, he showed a group of where he thought it was. Not in the "traditional" location, but just inside the fence near where the only civilian casualty of the battle is buried. Brain freeze..

11/21/2005 10:00 pm (et) CWgal: ks, I can just see the commentators after the speech if it has taken place today. The major networks would have torn it apart and missed the point all together

11/21/2005 10:01 pm (et) Basecat: Mobile...That he did, and I agree with what Wills stated that the speech changed how speeches were made. The long 3 hour performances became a thing of the past.

11/21/2005 10:01 pm (et) Basecat: Jenny Wade.

11/21/2005 10:01 pm (et) jimtno: Thanks base, BF again........

11/21/2005 10:02 pm (et) amhistoryguy: I was shocked to find that Lincoln actually wrote a short poem about the battle at Gettysburg. On July 19, 1863, Lincoln wrote, " In eighteen sixty three, with pomp and mighty swell, Me and Jeff's confederacy , went forth to sack Phil - del - The Yankee got after us , and gave us particular hell, and we skedaddled back again, and didn't sack Phil - del." Apparently written from the point of view of R. E. Lee.

11/21/2005 10:02 pm (et) mobile_96: I believe he made a statement right afterwards that Lincoln said more in his 3 mins then he had in 3 hours'

11/21/2005 10:03 pm (et) ks: CWgal, *especially* by political parties! ;) Lincoln's party would have boasted on brevity and merit and the others.

11/21/2005 10:03 pm (et) jimtno: You got it Mobile! Give that man an atta boy! ;-)

11/21/2005 10:03 pm (et) mobile_96: Most likely Gal.

11/21/2005 10:03 pm (et) Basecat: For what it is worth, I believe the speech was made where the center of the Cemetery is today...

11/21/2005 10:03 pm (et) ks: Where did you find THAT, AHG?? :)

11/21/2005 10:04 pm (et) CWgal: Wow AHG....interesting

11/21/2005 10:04 pm (et) Basecat: amhg...Makes you wonder if Abe the poet was the first one to describe the life of Barnacle Bill the Sailor..:)

11/21/2005 10:04 pm (et) jimtno: KS, I have seem that before. I think Catton wrote about it first.

11/21/2005 10:04 pm (et) mobile_96: I've seen that too, but can't remember where.

11/21/2005 10:05 pm (et) amhistoryguy: "The Abraham Lincoln Encyclopedia," by Mark Neely - under "Poetry" - like I said, Wills does make you look at other sources.

11/21/2005 10:05 pm (et) Basecat: Mobile, Exactly, and IIRC, Everett asked for an autographed copy of the speech at that time as well.

11/21/2005 10:07 pm (et) mobile_96: Might have been in a ebook on writings of Lincoln I have here somewhere.

11/21/2005 10:07 pm (et) CWgal: Did you see on CWi the other day about one of those autographed copies going for something like $68,000.

11/21/2005 10:08 pm (et) jimtno: CW.. I heard that it had sold. Did not know how much! Yikes!

11/21/2005 10:09 pm (et) Basecat: amhg...I does make you want to delve deeper into those sources he used.

11/21/2005 10:09 pm (et) CWgal: $688,000

11/21/2005 10:09 pm (et) mobile_96: Anyone checked out the framed photos at the Lincoln Book shop in Chicago?

11/21/2005 10:09 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Thought that was a copy of the EP, CWgal?

11/21/2005 10:09 pm (et) CWgal:

11/21/2005 10:10 pm (et) mobile_96: Same here on the EP copy.

11/21/2005 10:10 pm (et) CWgal: Oops! you are so right AHG....I just got caught up in the excitement *blushing*.

11/21/2005 10:10 pm (et) amhistoryguy: IIRC, there are only 5 copies of the Gettysburg Address signed by Lincoln.

11/21/2005 10:11 pm (et) ks: If you all want to read more, I'm open to it. But, this being a holiday weekend I thought we could keep the assigned reading minimal. That would be just the Epilogue and the Appendices I and II. The following week we could cover the Four Funeral Orations.

11/21/2005 10:11 pm (et) ks: Appendices I and II are What Lincoln Said : The Text and Where He Said It: The Site.

11/21/2005 10:12 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Sounds good to me, it will be a busy weekend.

11/21/2005 10:13 pm (et) Basecat: Fine by me ks...If we read more for next week...not all that much to discuss during the finale.