Book Chat
A Bohemian Brigade
The Civil War Correspondents
James M. Perry

This chat took place in the Civil War Home Chatroom on 10/21/07 and covered Chapters 1 & 2

10/21/2007 9:09 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Welcome to tonight’s BOOK CHAT on James M. Perry’s “A BOHEMIAN BRIGADE: THE CIVIL WAR CORRESPONDENTS, MOSTLY ROUGH, SOMETIMES READY. tonight we will be covering the Preface, Acknowledgements, and chapter one and two.

10/21/2007 9:10 pm (et) amhistoryguy: I have to admit to skipping the Preface in many books, but this one has some interesting points.

10/21/2007 9:11 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Preface - Perry makes a very interesting statement in the preface. He implies that he has some sort of inside advantage in writing about journalists, because he is one. He says, “I know these Civil War reporters. I have been there myself.” Do you think that is an advantage or maybe a disadvantage, for the author to be a journalist? Is someone, perhaps a historian, equally as capable having done thorough research? Any thoughts

10/21/2007 9:12 pm (et) bluelady: I think sometimes having a working knowledge of your subject...especially personalities helps.

10/21/2007 9:13 pm (et) bluelady: I personally can't say I know what it is like to be a reporter so don't feel I could write about them by just researching about what they did.

10/21/2007 9:13 pm (et) Teej: OTOH, the CW is such a unique period that I think an understanding of that is imperative.

10/21/2007 9:13 pm (et) ks: In this case I'd see it as an advantage. Perry would have the insight of working to get published. :) Enjoyed his descriptions of correspondents then and now.

10/21/2007 9:13 pm (et) Susansweet: I think he does have an advantage as he knows what it feels like to go after the story.

10/21/2007 9:14 pm (et) secret squirrel: yeah, but the camaraderie between reporters in the midst of danger doesn't change

10/21/2007 9:14 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Having been a soldier, I don’t think that I could claim that I know Civil War soldiers, because I have been there. There may be some areas that I could claim a small insight into, but to claim to “know them” seems a bit brash, IMO.

10/21/2007 9:14 pm (et) Teej: Thank you AMHG. :-)

10/21/2007 9:14 pm (et) Susansweet: but Dave you have insights in to how it feels to be a soldier that I can only imagine.

10/21/2007 9:14 pm (et) amhistoryguy: I would think that journalism has changed a bit since the Civil War.

10/21/2007 9:15 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Being a soldier is different than being a CW soldier.

10/21/2007 9:15 pm (et) Susansweet: It has changed but the basic get the story first hasn't changed.

10/21/2007 9:16 pm (et) bluelady: Maybe but you know what it is like to be shot at, be terribly frightened.

10/21/2007 9:16 pm (et) secret squirrel: I would think there is alot more in common than not.

10/21/2007 9:16 pm (et) secret squirrel: Both drilled, both were away from home, both scared, bad food.

10/21/2007 9:16 pm (et) ks: I'm sure that journalism HAS changed some since the CW. :) But as you read about the prejudices brought to the table by editors and reporters...seems much remains unchanged. Don't wish to get ahead though.
It was an interesting preface. I read and reread that 2nd paragraph describing the reaction a couple of years ago to the memorial to Ellsworth being place in Alexandria. Surprised that the sentiment still exists and that some were so outraged.

10/21/2007 9:16 pm (et) bluelady: You might not know the disease the CW soldier knew but you knew what it was like to be away from family.

10/21/2007 9:16 pm (et) Teej: Well, for instance, Perry mentions that the telegraph made news almost instantaneous but fails to mention correspondent access to telegraphs was very limited. A lot of conniving went on to secure extra time.

10/21/2007 9:17 pm (et) amhistoryguy: That's a good point too ks, I think this made an impression on Perry too.

10/21/2007 9:17 pm (et) bluelady: ks...look at the fights about the flag today...and even the reason for CWWT's forbidden topics.

10/21/2007 9:18 pm (et) Susansweet: Now compete to get air time.

10/21/2007 9:19 pm (et) secret squirrel: Right, exactly.

10/21/2007 9:19 pm (et) ks: True, bluelady. Still surprised that people knew who Ellsworth WAS and made a fuss. Must have been some REPORTING going on for people to be aware of the significance. Otherwise Alexandrians might have driven by and had no clue other than "Huh, new memorial?" :)

10/21/2007 9:19 pm (et) bluelady: Have to agree with you there ks.

10/21/2007 9:20 pm (et) amhistoryguy: But their fight for telegraph time was with the government, reporting on the very folks who let them report.

10/21/2007 9:20 pm (et) Susansweet: SUV chapter was monitoring it I would bet.

10/21/2007 9:21 pm (et) Teej: I'm not certain I agree with Perry's statement about lack of information on southern reporters.

10/21/2007 9:21 pm (et) ks: Okay, our reading didn't make ref. to fight for telegraph time, did it? Care to speak more to that, somebody? Fight was with the government?

10/21/2007 9:21 pm (et) Susansweet: Think back to the first nights in Bagdad . CNN had almost a exclusive on reporting.

10/21/2007 9:22 pm (et) Susansweet: All the stations were showing CNN feed.

10/21/2007 9:22 pm (et) Susansweet: Different medium but same problems.

10/21/2007 9:22 pm (et) bluelady: Teej brought that one up...but I think it like a room full of reporters in the 50's and only one pay phone for them to use to get back to their papers.

10/21/2007 9:23 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Most reports were filed by telegraph, and in most areas the government controlled the telegraph.

10/21/2007 9:23 pm (et) ks: What do you mean, Teej? IIRC Perry said copies of papers disappeared and what's left is impersonal and incomplete. That part or next sentence where he said they didn't write about themselves?

10/21/2007 9:23 pm (et) bluelady: And imagine the government needing to use that same pay phone.

10/21/2007 9:23 pm (et) Susansweet: Right Blue I have read that each reporter had only so much time on the telegraph hence the development of Who what when were why and how in reporting.

10/21/2007 9:24 pm (et) Babs: I was amused that Perry said too many reporters are pompous and arrogant. Then n the next page he bragged about his writings on the Kennedy assassination and Churchill's funeral.

10/21/2007 9:24 pm (et) amhistoryguy: They allowed only a certain amount of usage.

10/21/2007 9:24 pm (et) Susansweet: Proving his statement Babs

10/21/2007 9:25 pm (et) bluelady: Right and I think he admitted to that too Susan.

10/21/2007 9:25 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Anything further in the Preface? If not, how about the Acknowledgments?

10/21/2007 9:25 pm (et) Teej: It's the bit about copies of papers disappearing. He didn't elaborate on that. The larger city papers stayed in business until they were occupied or ran out of paper.

10/21/2007 9:26 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Acknowledgments - Not much out of the ordinary here. The notation that what junior officers thought of journalists is largely unknown, while general officers seemed not to think very highly of them, is not surprising, as I would think the interaction of journalists would largely take place primarily with higher ranking officers.

10/21/2007 9:26 pm (et) kayq: Re the end of Preface, thought it was interesting/surprising that many Southern reporters' work has not been preserved or known. Sad, given the South's passion for much of what they felt they fought for.

10/21/2007 9:26 pm (et) Susansweet: One comment his statement We know most generals disliked war correspondents.

10/21/2007 9:26 pm (et) bluelady: Trying to get close to the top to get the next move so to speak.

10/21/2007 9:27 pm (et) Teej: Bill Styple wrote a great book on Southern correspondent, Peter Wellington Alexander.

10/21/2007 9:28 pm (et) amhistoryguy: The Northern reporters being close to Union Generals actually provided the Confederacy a fine source of intel.

10/21/2007 9:28 pm (et) Teej: Southern newspaper, at least the ones I've read loved propaganda. :-)

10/21/2007 9:28 pm (et) ks: Only thing that struck me in the Acknowledgments was the last sentence where Perry said that the CW correspondents "have been lively company for more than a year." A year? A single year??? Seems most people spend more than A YEAR writing a book! :)

10/21/2007 9:29 pm (et) ks: Not familiar with the Styple book, Teej? Was that out prior to Perry's book. If so, he goofed.

10/21/2007 9:29 pm (et) secret squirrel: So you are saying...

10/21/2007 9:30 pm (et) mobile_96: And Styple's book isn't even mentioned in the sources

10/21/2007 9:30 pm (et) Teej: After.

10/21/2007 9:30 pm (et) secret squirrel: Sloppy work? Remarkably good work?

10/21/2007 9:30 pm (et) bluelady: thought it curious that he spent some time here in Elmira.

10/21/2007 9:31 pm (et) Teej: I would think if Perry read any of the Richmond papers he might change his mind.

10/21/2007 9:31 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Styple also edited a wonderful collection of soldier letters sent to the New York Sunday Mercury.

10/21/2007 9:31 pm (et) bluelady: I wonder what Steele had that he couldn't get back in Alexandria?

10/21/2007 9:31 pm (et) secret squirrel: So you are saying the book wasn't well researched.

10/21/2007 9:32 pm (et) amhistoryguy: "Writing and Fighting the Civil War"

10/21/2007 9:33 pm (et) amhistoryguy: I don't think anyone is saying that ss. Just that, IMO, he places more weight on the fact that he IS a journalist.

10/21/2007 9:33 pm (et) Teej: The other one was "Writing and Fighting the Confederate War"

10/21/2007 9:33 pm (et) Babs: Blue, I think it was convenience as it was near his summer home. You are neighbors.

10/21/2007 9:34 pm (et) amhistoryguy: And that there are collections of southern papers.

10/21/2007 9:34 pm (et) mobile_96: Is Styple a journalist by any chance?

10/21/2007 9:34 pm (et) bluelady: Ah hence the reference to Dundee...nice place for a summer home.

10/21/2007 9:34 pm (et) Susansweet: Yes he says he used that library when he was at his summer home

10/21/2007 9:34 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Ready to move on to Chapter One?

10/21/2007 9:34 pm (et) ks: Red- eye

10/21/2007 9:35 pm (et) bluelady: amhg..I think SS wanted to know what ks thought about him only spending a "year" with the cw  correspondents...reference to his last sentence in this section.

10/21/2007 9:35 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Styple is a "businessman" and town historian in Kearny NJ.

10/21/2007 9:36 pm (et) mobile_96: Thank you amh.

10/21/2007 9:37 pm (et) Teej: And a historian. Did some work with Brian Pohanka

10/21/2007 9:37 pm (et) amhistoryguy: CHAPTER ONE - The Worlds Greatest War Correspondent - I hope everyone made note of the mention that in pre war New York there were 18 daily papers.

10/21/2007 9:37 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Russell, as a trained observer, made some interesting comments on Horace Greely.

10/21/2007 9:37 pm (et) Susansweet: And people read them

10/21/2007 9:38 pm (et) bluelady: Papers were the way people got news from other radio or tv.

10/21/2007 9:39 pm (et) Susansweet: Several editions would come out each day also.

10/21/2007 9:39 pm (et) amhistoryguy: His impression of Abraham Lincoln is equally interesting. I would find it hard to fathom that Russell would be wrong on one hand and correct on the other. I rather think that he was pretty spot on in both accounts.

10/21/2007 9:39 pm (et) bluelady: I think Russell was trying to be honest in what he saw but was expected to write what his readers perceived his topics to be like.

10/21/2007 9:39 pm (et) ks: Good STUFF in Chapter One! Comments on Greely are interesting, but observations on Lincoln were FASCINATING.

10/21/2007 9:39 pm (et) amhistoryguy: While in North Carolina, Russell made the observation that poor whites, “are rabid to have a class below them, ergo they are all for slaves.”

10/21/2007 9:40 pm (et) Babs: Perry said that Russell had been a correspondent during the Crimean War. The Starr book says that his writings were the inspiration for Tennyson to write "The Charge of the Light Brigade".

10/21/2007 9:40 pm (et) bluelady: His impressions on all the people he met were quite "right on".

10/21/2007 9:40 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Important to remember that Russell was reporting for London.

10/21/2007 9:41 pm (et) secret squirrel: No one wanted to hear about the truth, on either side of the ocean.

10/21/2007 9:41 pm (et) ks: I thought that NC observation was interesting too, ahg. Have read that statement previously about poor white wanting to have class beneath them.

10/21/2007 9:41 pm (et) bluelady: The fact that coming to America and getting confused after meeting with some of the people was interesting too...comments on English perceptions of America at the time.

10/21/2007 9:41 pm (et) amhistoryguy: His honesty made him no friends in the states, north or south.

10/21/2007 9:42 pm (et) ks: Or with his editor.

10/21/2007 9:42 pm (et) amhistoryguy: What gives you that impression ss ?

10/21/2007 9:42 pm (et) bluelady: Well ks...isn't that one of the reasons for the draft riots in NY...and the fires stirred up about emancipation?

10/21/2007 9:42 pm (et) ks: Found that an intriguing part of the story how his editor was so pro-CSA.

10/21/2007 9:43 pm (et) secret squirrel: The north wasn't happy, said they were happy to eat and drink, not thinking seriously about the war...

10/21/2007 9:43 pm (et) Babs: Blue, That's right. He was surprised by the diversity of opinion he encountered. Something we take for granted.

10/21/2007 9:43 pm (et) bluelady: Many in Europe were rooting for the South

10/21/2007 9:44 pm (et) secret squirrel: The south wasn't happy either, his perceptions of the aristocratic lifestyle enabled by slavery.

10/21/2007 9:44 pm (et) Babs: Rooting for their cotton trade.

10/21/2007 9:44 pm (et) Teej: Didn't the planter class model themselves after English nobility?

10/21/2007 9:44 pm (et) secret squirrel: Right, people rooting for the south in Europe, until reading things that weren't flattering.

10/21/2007 9:45 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Perhaps they did not take Southern threats seriously prior to the war, once war was upon them, the north was certainly taking it seriously.

10/21/2007 9:45 pm (et) Susansweet: I thought it was interesting that he thought the south would look to an English prince to rule.

10/21/2007 9:45 pm (et) mobile_96: Believe so Teej.

10/21/2007 9:45 pm (et) bluelady: Which is why Russell might have been drawn to them Teej.

10/21/2007 9:45 pm (et) bluelady: And the South absolutely did not take too kindly to that Susan.

10/21/2007 9:45 pm (et) ks: Susan, that fascinated me as well. An English prince to rule the new monarchy.

10/21/2007 9:46 pm (et) bluelady: A total misread on Russell's part there.

10/21/2007 9:46 pm (et) Teej: Wasn't that a bit of a ploy to get Queen Victoria to recognize the Confederacy?

10/21/2007 9:46 pm (et) Susansweet: I love what Perry said , that Russell had spent too much time with the rich planters.

10/21/2007 9:46 pm (et) Babs: And the South wasn't happy when they read it.

10/21/2007 9:47 pm (et) amhistoryguy: I think there was a huge difference between American newspapers, largely a political tool, as opposed to European papers.

10/21/2007 9:47 pm (et) Susansweet: Might have been Teej she did have some extra princes hanging around doing nothing.

10/21/2007 9:48 pm (et) bluelady: To talk about them wanting an English Royalty? I don't thinks so teej...I think Russell misread their passion for the life style and overlooked their fierce strong states rights feeling.

10/21/2007 9:48 pm (et) ks: Can you elaborate on that, Dave. Not sure I understand.

10/21/2007 9:48 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Anything further on Chapter One ?

10/21/2007 9:48 pm (et) bluelady: I agree with ks on that dave...elaborate please.

10/21/2007 9:49 pm (et) Susansweet: Yes the findings that Russell made on the diversity of the urban white in the confederacy when he visited other cities.

10/21/2007 9:49 pm (et) Susansweet: Like New Orleans.

10/21/2007 9:50 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Papers in America all had political backing, this one was Democratic, that one was Republican. They were supported by politics. In Europe, if they had an interest, it was economic - they wanted to know how things were going to affect them in the pocket book.

10/21/2007 9:50 pm (et) Susansweet: I see what you mean Dave .

10/21/2007 9:50 pm (et) Susansweet: But papers in England where political too.

10/21/2007 9:52 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Within England, but English papers only political interest in America was how it affected them financially. They needed the honest assessment that Russell was sent to get.

10/21/2007 9:53 pm (et) Susansweet: Hh that would be true and I laughed out loud when I read what he said about Adam Smith driven out of his grave with a fresh edition of Wealth of Nations in his caw.

10/21/2007 9:53 pm (et) bluelady: I don't think he was sent to give an honest assessment.. I think he was sent to give them what they wanted...even his home paper was a bit disappointed in him on his arrival.

10/21/2007 9:53 pm (et) amhistoryguy: That's why I believe Russell is a good source of info, better perhaps than from an American paper with the Democratic label.

10/21/2007 9:53 pm (et) ks: Not an area of familiarity and not something I'd considered. Thanks, Dave.

10/21/2007 9:54 pm (et) amhistoryguy: What was it you think they wanted Bluelady?

10/21/2007 9:54 pm (et) Teej: I laughed at that too, Susan. However, "Cotton is King" is vastly overrated and there were other reasons for the British not to object to the blockade.

10/21/2007 9:54 pm (et) Basecat: Sorry, could not read the homework, but have read on Russell, and IIRC, he was not here for the entire CW correct?

10/21/2007 9:54 pm (et) Susansweet: Nope he left early.

10/21/2007 9:54 pm (et) Teej: He left in 1863, Steve.

10/21/2007 9:55 pm (et) amhistoryguy: He was here a very short time.

10/21/2007 9:55 pm (et) secret squirrel: Had no friends left.

10/21/2007 9:55 pm (et) Basecat: Thanks guys...

10/21/2007 9:56 pm (et) Susansweet: I thought it was interesting that after he visited the slave auctions and quarters he was certain he despised slavery.

10/21/2007 9:56 pm (et) Susansweet: The description of the slave auction was emotional.

10/21/2007 9:56 pm (et) Babs: He left April 9, 1862

10/21/2007 9:57 pm (et) secret squirrel: I think he wanted to see it first hand. And he said blacks were certainly men (and women).

10/21/2007 9:57 pm (et) secret squirrel: He thought for 900 dollars he could own someone for life.

10/21/2007 9:57 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Anything further on Chapter One? If not, lets get to Chapter Two.

10/21/2007 9:58 pm (et) Susansweet: Amazing isn't it that for 900 dollars.

10/21/2007 9:58 pm (et) amhistoryguy: CHAPTER TWO - Bull Run From The Rear - Keeping in mind the political nature of American newspapers, the straightforward reporting of Russell seemed to disappoint Northerners as well as Southerners.

10/21/2007 9:59 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Russell’s observations of the Union rout at Bull Run - Comments ?

10/21/2007 9:59 pm (et) bluelady: In this chapter it stated he did not realize that he was writing for 2 audiences.

10/21/2007 9:59 pm (et) secret squirrel: Disgraceful.

10/21/2007 10:00 pm (et) bluelady: One back in England and also here in the US as many American papers reprint what foreign correspondents write back home.

10/21/2007 10:00 pm (et) Susansweet: I thought it was funny that he didn't realize Americans read the paper for the news.

10/21/2007 10:01 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Observations disgraceful - or rout?

10/21/2007 10:01 pm (et) Susansweet: At least the NY Herald.

10/21/2007 10:01 pm (et) secret squirrel: No planned retreat.

10/21/2007 10:01 pm (et) amhistoryguy: He was surprised that people read at all.

10/21/2007 10:01 pm (et) secret squirrel: Running away like scared children, officers included.

10/21/2007 10:01 pm (et) secret squirrel: Commanders not knowing where there companies were.

10/21/2007 10:02 pm (et) Susansweet: But before we talk about the rout. What did you think of him stopping to picnic on the way to cover the battle ?

10/21/2007 10:02 pm (et) secret squirrel: One regiment leaving because their 90 days enlistments were up

10/21/2007 10:02 pm (et) Babs: I found a quote that McDowell suggested to Russell that the reporters should wear white uniforms to "indicate the purity of their character". Funniest thing McDowell said for a while.

10/21/2007 10:02 pm (et) secret squirrel: He was mortified.

10/21/2007 10:02 pm (et) amhistoryguy: That is also interesting, that by reading Russell you come away with a grasp of how Europeans probably saw us.

10/21/2007 10:03 pm (et) ks: Russell had a lot of tobacky observations, didn't he? ;) Numerous references but thinking of this chapter's mention of JUICE making the Capitol stairways slippery. ;)

10/21/2007 10:03 pm (et) Susansweet: Perry says Russell was not prepared to cover the battle , didn't have the right equipment

10/21/2007 10:04 pm (et) Susansweet: THAT is when I said EWWWW as I was eating breakfast in a cafe at the time

10/21/2007 10:04 pm (et) secret squirrel: Also notes the soldiers were not prepared for the battle either.

10/21/2007 10:04 pm (et) Babs: KS, I guess they didn't use chaw so much in England.

10/21/2007 10:04 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Russell had to scramble to get a horse.

10/21/2007 10:04 pm (et) bluelady: This was one time Russell told the truth...and it got him in trouble here in the US...his story of the rout was used by his paper back home to "support" anti union cause of the paper.

10/21/2007 10:04 pm (et) Susansweet: Perry says to top things off Russell's watch didn't work.

10/21/2007 10:05 pm (et) bluelady: babs.. I think they used the spittoons more in Europe.

10/21/2007 10:05 pm (et) Babs: And his traveling buddy was two hours late.

10/21/2007 10:05 pm (et) secret squirrel: But they spit in them, not on the floor.

10/21/2007 10:05 pm (et) bluelady: Exactly SS!

10/21/2007 10:06 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Russell's observations were objected to in large part because he was an outsider. Many northern reporters said the same things he did.

10/21/2007 10:06 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Who did he think he was. !!

10/21/2007 10:06 pm (et) Teej: Wasn't it all about the tone Russell used?

10/21/2007 10:07 pm (et) bluelady: I think it was more the editorial of his home paper that went with his story...not what Russell meant to happen but it did

10/21/2007 10:08 pm (et) Susansweet: You mean saying disgraceful conduct, cowardly route miserable causeless panic.

10/21/2007 10:08 pm (et) Susansweet: That tone?

10/21/2007 10:08 pm (et) amhistoryguy: That was pretty much it, a tone of being somewhat "patronizing" as Perry said.

10/21/2007 10:08 pm (et) Teej: LOL...

10/21/2007 10:09 pm (et) ks: Sounds like what we often see portrayed as British.

10/21/2007 10:09 pm (et) bluelady: Seems like most of Europe was still "patronizing" towards the "colonies".

10/21/2007 10:09 pm (et) bluelady: ks put it better.

10/21/2007 10:09 pm (et) Susansweet: And in that vein it says he used dialect much of the time.

10/21/2007 10:10 pm (et) ks: Note to blue...I was thinking "Mary put it better." ;)

10/21/2007 10:10 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Absolutely, and we were resentful of it.

10/21/2007 10:10 pm (et) Susansweet: Not just the slave dialect

10/21/2007 10:10 pm (et) bluelady: lol

10/21/2007 10:11 pm (et) secret squirrel: He gave me a colorful insight to just how integrated the country was becoming even then.

10/21/2007 10:12 pm (et) bluelady: but that lies in his confusion...the way his homeland perceived the US to be...He found out it was much more and wanted his homeland to know it..but they wouldn't here of it and he ended up alienating the people he wanted his readers to know more about.

10/21/2007 10:12 pm (et) Susansweet: The Union and Southern newspaper men seem to have made it to the battle on time.

10/21/2007 10:12 pm (et) bluelady: Or susan..they made it up.

10/21/2007 10:13 pm (et) Susansweet: Well yeah they may have done that but Perry says they were there.

10/21/2007 10:13 pm (et) Susansweet: Not picnicking on the way somewhere.

10/21/2007 10:14 pm (et) secret squirrel: Not knowing what they were witnessing, no war experience.

10/21/2007 10:14 pm (et) secret squirrel: No war coverage experience.

10/21/2007 10:14 pm (et) amhistoryguy: They did things differently in England. The pre battle picnic was standard.

10/21/2007 10:14 pm (et) bluelady: Well, I guess their watches weren't broken.

10/21/2007 10:15 pm (et) Susansweet: Russell had had experience though.

10/21/2007 10:15 pm (et) bluelady: But did not know where he was going.

10/21/2007 10:15 pm (et) mobile_96: Even stopping for tea time?

10/21/2007 10:15 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Good point ss - this was a new experience for American reporters.

10/21/2007 10:15 pm (et) ks: No sign of smiley. Dost thou joke, Mr. Moderator, Sir. Pre-battle picnic ;) ;)

10/21/2007 10:16 pm (et) Susansweet: Can you picture David Bloom in asking the guys he was embedded with to stop for lunch on the way to Bagdad?

10/21/2007 10:16 pm (et) amhistoryguy: : )

10/21/2007 10:16 pm (et) ks: :-D

10/21/2007 10:17 pm (et) bluelady: They would have just thrown him an MRE.

10/21/2007 10:17 pm (et) amhistoryguy: I'm not sure that anyone, spectators, soldiers, or reporters knew what to expect.

10/21/2007 10:18 pm (et) Babs: No clotted cream for his scone.

10/21/2007 10:18 pm (et) Susansweet: Oh that's true Blue.

10/21/2007 10:18 pm (et) bluelady: :)

10/21/2007 10:19 pm (et) amhistoryguy: I wonder just how big a story, Russell's story became, compared to the rout, which was really the story.

10/21/2007 10:19 pm (et) amhistoryguy: A case of kill the messenger?

10/21/2007 10:20 pm (et) bluelady: Yep

10/21/2007 10:20 pm (et) Babs: He nearly was killed.

10/21/2007 10:21 pm (et) Susansweet: Twice guns were aimed at him in the rout.

10/21/2007 10:21 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Did people pay attention to who wrote the stories they read, or was it unique to Russell? Any thoughts?

10/21/2007 10:22 pm (et) secret squirrel: He was a famous reporter and was well received...initially.

10/21/2007 10:22 pm (et) Susansweet: I think at this time people did look to see who the writer was.

10/21/2007 10:22 pm (et) Teej: Do you mean by-lines, AMHG?

10/21/2007 10:22 pm (et) bluelady: I think for him it might have been unique for he already was famous...for most I bet they were disappointed.

10/21/2007 10:23 pm (et) bluelady: In the long run.

10/21/2007 10:23 pm (et) Babs: I think they usually knew who "our correspondent" was.

10/21/2007 10:23 pm (et) Susansweet: And after Bull Run he says he was best abused man in America.

10/21/2007 10:23 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Yes, somewhat Teej. Where other reporters threatened for writing the same things. According to Perry, it would seem not.

10/21/2007 10:24 pm (et) Teej: I was under the impression that by-lines didn't become standard until Hooker took command.

10/21/2007 10:24 pm (et) Susansweet: But Dave it says he was singled out because of the Tone of his writing.

10/21/2007 10:24 pm (et) Teej: Most articles, if they were signed, were signed with pen-names.

10/21/2007 10:25 pm (et) Susansweet: I seemed to have read that too in a book of Civil War Firsts.

10/21/2007 10:25 pm (et) bluelady: But you said earlier that the other writers were American...we can abuse ourselves but let an outsider do the same...woe be unto him.

10/21/2007 10:25 pm (et) Susansweet: But don't you think if there were pen names the people would look for their favorites anyway.

10/21/2007 10:26 pm (et) amhistoryguy: When you write, tone is based more in perception isn't it. If two people write the same words, how is one tone different from another?

10/21/2007 10:26 pm (et) Teej: A book I use a lot for my RT newsletter, Susan.

10/21/2007 10:26 pm (et) mobile_96: Would expect so Susan.

10/21/2007 10:26 pm (et) secret squirrel: A southern journalist could write about the bull run fiasco, and what would happen? Nothing.

10/21/2007 10:27 pm (et) secret squirrel: Wouldn't you expect him to write something like that?

10/21/2007 10:27 pm (et) bluelady: Exactly amhg..

10/21/2007 10:27 pm (et) Susansweet: They are writing about the same thing but don't think they used the same words.

10/21/2007 10:27 pm (et) Susansweet: that would change the tone

10/21/2007 10:27 pm (et) Teej: Sort of like email. :-)

10/21/2007 10:28 pm (et) mobile_96: But they they write about the same event with slightly different words their "tone" of the message could/would be different.

10/21/2007 10:28 pm (et) amhistoryguy: But.. Russell was not "one of us" and anything critical he wrote was in bad "tone."

10/21/2007 10:28 pm (et) ks: Amen. :) How many times has perceived tone been a problem in email or even in CHAT? :)

10/21/2007 10:28 pm (et) Teej: I think you had it right, AMGH, about Russell being an outsider.

10/21/2007 10:28 pm (et) Babs: They considered his tone high toned.

10/21/2007 10:29 pm (et) mobile_96: KS...far too often

10/21/2007 10:29 pm (et) bluelady: Exactly ks....which is why I still go with the outsider theory...he said the same thing but was a know "outsider".

10/21/2007 10:29 pm (et) Susansweet: Happens all the time Ks.

10/21/2007 10:29 pm (et) Teej: Just so. It's OK for my to talk about my kids, but no one else better do so even if what they say is true, no? :-)

10/21/2007 10:29 pm (et) bluelady: Just like I said earlier Teej.

10/21/2007 10:30 pm (et) secret squirrel: Yes, i think it is more "who" is writing.

10/21/2007 10:30 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Very much so ss.

10/21/2007 10:30 pm (et) Susansweet: That could be true , you can call your home team bums but people from other cities better not.

10/21/2007 10:30 pm (et) ks: So Russell was an OUTSIDER (and a Brit at that) with a perceived tone. Double or triple whammy.

10/21/2007 10:31 pm (et) Teej: As this is the anniversary of Ball's Bluff, I took a quick peek at what Russell wrote about that. He trashed the funeral procession for Sen. Baker in very nit-picking ways.

10/21/2007 10:31 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Interesting though, when you read northern coverage of the events, many papers report " Huge Union Victory,"

10/21/2007 10:32 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Anything further on any of what we covered for tonight?

10/21/2007 10:32 pm (et) Susansweet: There ya go that is a huge different Tone.

10/21/2007 10:33 pm (et) bluelady: I think we got it...what is HW for next week?

10/21/2007 10:33 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Thanks for participating in tonight's chat on “A Bohemian Brigade; The Civil War Correspondents, Mostly Rough, Sometimes Ready.” For next week, we will be discussing Chapter Three and Chapter Four. Hope to see you all here again next Sunday.