Book Chat
"Class of 1846:
From West Point to Appomattox"
John C. Waugh

This chat took place in the Civil War Home Chatroom on 03/01/09 and covered "Maryland, My Maryland" thru  "Caught in the Rain".

3/1/2009 9:04 pm (et) Susansweet: Welcome to Civil War Book Talk March 1, 2009

3/1/2009 9:04 pm (et) Susansweet: The Class of 1846: From West Point to Appomattox : Stonewall Jackson, George McClellan and Their Brothers" by John C. Waugh

3/1/2009 9:05 pm (et) Susansweet: Please remember to not use pms during the discussion. Thanks.

3/1/2009 9:05 pm (et) Susansweet: We continue our discussion starting with.

3/1/2009 9:05 pm (et) Susansweet: First Chapter Maryland, My Maryland.

3/1/2009 9:06 pm (et) Susansweet: Being at the seat of war did not necessarily inspire George McClellan to fight and Abraham Lincoln was alarmed."

3/1/2009 9:06 pm (et) Susansweet: Another good opening line from Waugh.

3/1/2009 9:07 pm (et) Susansweet: Anyone want to start?

3/1/2009 9:07 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I can't believe the disrespect Mac had for Lincoln. It's hard to imagine he actually believed what he was writing Nelly.

3/1/2009 9:07 pm (et) bluelady: Mac continues to show the caution he showed at the very beginning of the war

3/1/2009 9:08 pm (et) Susansweet: He seems to not want to get his uniform dirty.

3/1/2009 9:08 pm (et) bluelady: Lincoln had the patience of Job when it came to Mac.

3/1/2009 9:08 pm (et) Susansweet: So very true Blue.

3/1/2009 9:08 pm (et) Babs: I have ben to Antietam a few times and I know it is a bit of a drive from the battlefield to Little Mac's HQ. Yet this is as close as he had been to a battle!!! First time he had ever seen his troops fight.

3/1/2009 9:09 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Lincoln thought he was in a corner because he felt he had no one else. Who was it that told him anyone else would do?

3/1/2009 9:09 pm (et) Susansweet: I love the first thing he does is place a siege on Yorktown.

3/1/2009 9:10 pm (et) bluelady: Mac did not have the fortitude to USE the troops he had. I recalled reading somewhere ,,I think in Gettysburg that Lee was saying you must love the army but at the same time you must send what you love in to battle.

3/1/2009 9:10 pm (et) Susansweet: Because he likes sieges . He wants to have his own siege. then the Confederates just leave town and Mac claims a victory.

3/1/2009 9:10 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Well, he may have been closer to the action. I don't know, but the actual battlefield it would seem was larger than the part we see today.

3/1/2009 9:11 pm (et) Susansweet: He is so paranoid too.  Everyone is out to get him.

3/1/2009 9:11 pm (et) bluelady: Shows what kind of student he was...seem like the old tactics were to put on a siege.

3/1/2009 9:12 pm (et) Babs: He believed it until it became true.

3/1/2009 9:12 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: It's shame he was gone before Vicksburg and Petersburg then.

3/1/2009 9:12 pm (et) bluelady: Paranoia really gets him later.

3/1/2009 9:12 pm (et) Susansweet: It brought glory to others so he hopes it will bring glory to him.

3/1/2009 9:12 pm (et) bluelady: Really...but then I don't think he would have had the fortitude to put the squeeze on.

3/1/2009 9:13 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: He never would have been promoted to head of any army today, perhaps not even been an officer.

3/1/2009 9:13 pm (et) Susansweet: Can you believe how he describes Lee at Fair Oaks.

3/1/2009 9:13 pm (et) cwbksell: He did Sue. Mac laid siege on Yorktown with 100,000 men facing Magruder with 5,000 men. Magruder left and Mac claimed a "bloodless victory." That was the type he loved.

3/1/2009 9:13 pm (et) Susansweet: Too cautious and weak under grave responsibility.

3/1/2009 9:13 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Susan, is that the quote where he describes himself?

3/1/2009 9:14 pm (et) Susansweet: Right he describes Lee but it is a description of himself.

3/1/2009 9:14 pm (et) bluelady: I think he was looking in the mirror when he was describing his thoughts on Lee.

3/1/2009 9:14 pm (et) mobile_96: Correct LF.

3/1/2009 9:15 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: The confederates finally got tired of waiting for him to attack and left Yorktown. He thought the "success is brilliant."

3/1/2009 9:15 pm (et) Susansweet: Then later on on the same page he says I must not unnecessarily risk my life'' for the fate of the army depends on me.

3/1/2009 9:15 pm (et) bluelady: Later on that page explains why I think he had a hard time bringing his men to fight.

3/1/2009 9:16 pm (et) Susansweet: By this time I think Lincoln might have hope he had taken an unnecessary risk.

3/1/2009 9:16 pm (et) bluelady: "Every poor fellow that is killed or wounded almost haunts me."

3/1/2009 9:16 pm (et) cwbksell: I have always said Mac should never have been placed in command of an army in the field. He should have been made General in charge of training troops to fight in battle. But the troops should have left and Mac stayed home to train more.

3/1/2009 9:16 pm (et) Susansweet: oh good quote Blue.

3/1/2009 9:16 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: OK, which page.

3/1/2009 9:16 pm (et) bluelady: With that on your mind constantly I would think it would paralyze one from moving.

3/1/2009 9:17 pm (et) bluelady: 360 in my book.

3/1/2009 9:17 pm (et) Susansweet: that's what I have , bottom of the page last lines.

3/1/2009 9:17 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: He would have been brilliant at that, cw. I've heard that said a lot. That was his strong point.

3/1/2009 9:18 pm (et) Susansweet: I agree cw he would have been good at training the troops and then sent them to others to lead.

3/1/2009 9:18 pm (et) bluelady: yep...

3/1/2009 9:18 pm (et) bluelady: Everyone says that about Mac..

3/1/2009 9:19 pm (et) Susansweet: Then he gets pushed back to Harrison Landing 26 miles from where he started and he know why it happened . No doubt in his mind , it was not his fault . Geeze !!!!!

3/1/2009 9:20 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Sanford should have shown Lincoln's message saying Washington had done it's best to sacrifice the Army. Maybe he would have been gone sooner.

3/1/2009 9:20 pm (et) Susansweet: Enemies superior number 85 thousand.

3/1/2009 9:20 pm (et) bluelady: I think that statement about Mac's fear for his army is why in every battle he sent them in piecemeal if at all.

3/1/2009 9:20 pm (et) Susansweet: And stabbed in the back by Washington.

3/1/2009 9:20 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Didn't make myself clear: shown Mac's message to Sanford.

3/1/2009 9:20 pm (et) cwbksell: Mac believed he had enemies in front of him as well as behind him (in Washington).

3/1/2009 9:21 pm (et) Susansweet: Now Halleck and Pope are called in from the west .

3/1/2009 9:22 pm (et) Susansweet: Mac sure doesn't like this move.

3/1/2009 9:22 pm (et) cwbksell: One author believed he used only half of his men at Antietam because he did not believe it fair to fight Lee with more men than Lee had.

3/1/2009 9:22 pm (et) bluelady: hmmm. "brains' halleck and "my headquarters are in the saddle" Pope

3/1/2009 9:22 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: He felt he had enemies next to him also. He didn't like any general that approached him in any way in rank, or was in any other way equal or superior to him.

3/1/2009 9:23 pm (et) bluelady: Nah I think he was afraid he would loose what he had so wanted to retain part of that..he just could not throw an offensive punch

3/1/2009 9:24 pm (et) cwbksell: Mac confided in his friend Maj. Gen Fitz John Porter.

3/1/2009 9:24 pm (et) Pvt Miles: I agree Blue

3/1/2009 9:24 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Yeah, and Porter was surprised.

3/1/2009 9:25 pm (et) Susansweet: And now on the way to Sharpsburg we meet two class of 46 members Reno and Sturgis.

3/1/2009 9:26 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I like Sturgis.

3/1/2009 9:26 pm (et) Susansweet: I like the way Waugh brings these members of the class into the story when they are around.

3/1/2009 9:26 pm (et) Susansweet: He ties up loose ends.

3/1/2009 9:26 pm (et) bluelady: With them coming east Mac had to share the stage and in a sense was playing 2nd fiddle...a role he did not like

3/1/2009 9:27 pm (et) Susansweet: Oh no not second fiddle.

3/1/2009 9:27 pm (et) Babs: Had a great great uncle in the NY 76th who just waited through Antietam. He was in the big bunch never engaged.

3/1/2009 9:27 pm (et) bluelady: At the beginning of the Antietam campaign, Lincoln had a tough choice to make...put Mac back in control as before.. it really puffed up the little guy.

3/1/2009 9:28 pm (et) bluelady: oh babs.. a member of Fitz John's corp?

3/1/2009 9:29 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: At least Mac was right about Jackson. Pope should have listened to him.

3/1/2009 9:29 pm (et) Susansweet: Yep he did know Jackson .

3/1/2009 9:29 pm (et) cwbksell: About this time, Lincoln was running out of generals.

3/1/2009 9:30 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Where was Grant all this time. Why wasn't he recognized as the leader he was.

3/1/2009 9:30 pm (et) bluelady: Right lf...but I would have loved to see what Mac would have done about it.

3/1/2009 9:31 pm (et) mobile_96: Still too early in the war LF.

3/1/2009 9:31 pm (et) bluelady: Because at this time grant was just starting his plan to get Vicksburg IIRC.

3/1/2009 9:31 pm (et) Susansweet: Right . Grant is busy in the west .

3/1/2009 9:31 pm (et) bluelady: He was just returned to command when Halleck came east.

3/1/2009 9:32 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Yeah, but he had proven himself already in Tennessee, hadn't he? I'm not sure about the timeline.

3/1/2009 9:32 pm (et) Babs: Yes, Blue. I believe he was with Fitz.

3/1/2009 9:32 pm (et) Susansweet: Now we move on to the rest of the battle in the next chapter.

3/1/2009 9:32 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Oops, we have a new state.

3/1/2009 9:32 pm (et) Susansweet: The Man in the Red Battle Shirt.

3/1/2009 9:33 pm (et) bluelady: After Shiloh...Halleck who was jealous had him fired because of his alleged drinking.

3/1/2009 9:33 pm (et) Babs: Now I want to read a book about Hill. He seems like an interesting guy.

3/1/2009 9:33 pm (et) Susansweet: I have one I haven't read yet .

3/1/2009 9:33 pm (et) Susansweet: Supposed to be very good.

3/1/2009 9:34 pm (et) cwbksell: People in the East noticed Grant after Fort Donelson. That is where U.S. Grant became known as Unconditional Surrender Grant. But it is true like Sue said, Grant was busy with Shiloh and then Vicksburg.

3/1/2009 9:34 pm (et) bluelady: I am just beginning one on Hill by James Robertson.

3/1/2009 9:34 pm (et) Susansweet: Amazing how many class of 46 are facing each other at Anteitam.

3/1/2009 9:34 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Babs, I thought the same thing. Can we put that on the agenda for future reading?

3/1/2009 9:34 pm (et) mobile_96: Relieved but not exactly fired.

3/1/2009 9:34 pm (et) Susansweet: That's the one I have Blue.

3/1/2009 9:34 pm (et) Susansweet: Good idea.

3/1/2009 9:35 pm (et) bluelady: I had read it before but I was thinking after reading all this about T.J. Jackson...why not re read my one about Hill.

3/1/2009 9:35 pm (et) Susansweet: Maybe after muster?

3/1/2009 9:35 pm (et) bluelady: True Mobile.

3/1/2009 9:35 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I was surprised at that also, Susan. Could have had a real reunion there.

3/1/2009 9:35 pm (et) Susansweet: But they were no longer friends.

3/1/2009 9:36 pm (et) Susansweet: Hill's best friend is on the opposite side.

3/1/2009 9:36 pm (et) Susansweet: Both of his best friends really Mac and Burnside.

3/1/2009 9:37 pm (et) bluelady: It amazes me that they were able to disconnect themselves almost as readily as they were able to connect to begin with...must be something about duty they were taught at the point.

3/1/2009 9:37 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I don't care how unemotional they are about their former friends, it had to be tough.

3/1/2009 9:37 pm (et) bluelady: You would think.

3/1/2009 9:37 pm (et) Susansweet: I would bet that is part of it Blue. A big part.

3/1/2009 9:38 pm (et) Susansweet: I have read where Custer would look his buddies on the other side up after a battle.

3/1/2009 9:38 pm (et) bluelady: I think Lee purposely called them "those people" to help him with the disconnection.

3/1/2009 9:38 pm (et) Susansweet: Like that famous picture of him and Washington sitting together.

3/1/2009 9:38 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I can't see Jackson having a problem with it.

3/1/2009 9:39 pm (et) mobile_96: Heard that also Blue.

3/1/2009 9:39 pm (et) bluelady: That does not surprise me about Custer...he did it at Appomattox.

3/1/2009 9:39 pm (et) Susansweet: Shot Jackson arrested everyone associated with him at sometime or another.

3/1/2009 9:39 pm (et) bluelady: I was thinking about that to Susan.

3/1/2009 9:39 pm (et) Susansweet: Except Ewell.

3/1/2009 9:39 pm (et) cwbksell: Custer sat down with one of them (Confederate) after the battle for a picture.

3/1/2009 9:40 pm (et) Susansweet: That is Washington cwb.

3/1/2009 9:40 pm (et) bluelady: Jackson didn't have a problem with it because of the black and white world he had set up for himself ever since he was at the Point.

3/1/2009 9:40 pm (et) Susansweet: Or grandnephew.

3/1/2009 9:41 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Interesting that Hill was technically under arrest for not abiding by the ten-minute-rest rule when marching, but no one said a thing when he arrived at Antietam after marching for hours nonstop.

3/1/2009 9:41 pm (et) bluelady: Duty was duty and had to be followed.

3/1/2009 9:41 pm (et) bluelady: That is because Jackson was not at that part of the field to remind him about that.

3/1/2009 9:42 pm (et) bluelady: If he was, I am sure Jackson would have said something.

3/1/2009 9:42 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Jackson had to know how fast Hill got there.

3/1/2009 9:43 pm (et) bluelady: Possibly...I don't know if he knew exactly when Hill left.

3/1/2009 9:43 pm (et) Susansweet: Burnsides at the bridge. I learned quite a bit in this section. I didn't realize the problem there.

3/1/2009 9:43 pm (et) Susansweet: With the approach.

3/1/2009 9:43 pm (et) bluelady: Or even when he arrived for that matter.

3/1/2009 9:43 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: After marching that far at that pace, I don't know how they were able to fight at all.

3/1/2009 9:44 pm (et) bluelady: Susan.. have you been to Antietam yet?

3/1/2009 9:44 pm (et) Babs: He likely had other things on his mind than Hill's MPH.

3/1/2009 9:44 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: What do you mean, Susan?

3/1/2009 9:44 pm (et) bluelady: That too babs.

3/1/2009 9:44 pm (et) Susansweet: Yep, but I guess I missed the approach section on the other side of the bridge.

3/1/2009 9:44 pm (et) cwbksell: Hill got there just as fast as Jackson's men. The Stonewall Brigade was often referred to as Foot Cavalry.

3/1/2009 9:45 pm (et) Susansweet: That they had to march along side the stream exposed for such a long way before they could get to the bridge.

3/1/2009 9:45 pm (et) bluelady: It is wide open and the bluff on the other side made it easy for 500 well hidden rebs to defend against a crossing on the bridge.

3/1/2009 9:45 pm (et) Susansweet: I knew about the bluff I went down it and back up.

3/1/2009 9:45 pm (et) Susansweet: And knew the Southern sharpshooters were up there on the bluff.

3/1/2009 9:46 pm (et) bluelady: I had my girls there the middle of a thunderstorm that seemed like it was right over head!

3/1/2009 9:46 pm (et) Susansweet: One of the reasons I want to go back.

3/1/2009 9:46 pm (et) bluelady: Sounded like the battle all over again.

3/1/2009 9:46 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I don't think it's as exposed today as it was then, at least not as shown in the pictures, but it's still pretty open. Did you go over the bridge to the other side. From there, you get a pretty good idea of how exposed they were to the sharpshooters.

3/1/2009 9:46 pm (et) Susansweet: I walked down to the bridge with two Georgia people.

3/1/2009 9:47 pm (et) Susansweet: I didn't get to the other side as I was nervous about getting back up the bluff.

3/1/2009 9:47 pm (et) bluelady: It was Georgians who were in the bluffs.

3/1/2009 9:47 pm (et) Susansweet: I was huffing and puffing as it was.

3/1/2009 9:48 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: The tree at the base of the bridge on the other side is a witness tree.

3/1/2009 9:48 pm (et) Susansweet: Yeah the couple said well we can see how only a few Georgia boys would be needed here to hold them.

3/1/2009 9:48 pm (et) bluelady: There is an open field on the other side of the bridge..

3/1/2009 9:48 pm (et) Susansweet: cool

3/1/2009 9:48 pm (et) bluelady: yeah

3/1/2009 9:49 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: The sharpshooters had every advantage. I don't see how anyone got across the bridge.

3/1/2009 9:49 pm (et) bluelady: but anyway Hill saves the day for the rebs...against his old friend Burnside.

3/1/2009 9:49 pm (et) Susansweet: I know I remember looking back up at the bluff.

3/1/2009 9:50 pm (et) bluelady: Eventually numbers played a part plus I think a detachment found that other fording.

3/1/2009 9:50 pm (et) Susansweet: I did get stuck on one thing . had to look up the pin's point against Pelides spear.

3/1/2009 9:50 pm (et) Susansweet: Right blue.

3/1/2009 9:50 pm (et) mobile_96: Think about half the rebs were down, so the rush across the bridge worked.

3/1/2009 9:51 pm (et) cwbksell: Did any of you who were at the bridge go up or down river to see if there was a shallow place to cross the river?

3/1/2009 9:52 pm (et) Pvt Miles: On the approach to the bridge they didn't have to take the road ... a hill is on the other side as I recall which could have screened the Feds approach.

3/1/2009 9:52 pm (et) Babs: I went a ways, but did not indicate exactly where it was.

3/1/2009 9:52 pm (et) Susansweet: Again I love Waugh's description . Suddenly a clump of riders on sweat=lathered horses appeared before him . At the head was the slender, red bearded general in a red battle shirt.

3/1/2009 9:52 pm (et) Susansweet: What a picture,

3/1/2009 9:53 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Kind of hard to tell cw. I did walk it, but the times I've been there, the river could have been waded across at any point.

3/1/2009 9:53 pm (et) bluelady: I don't recall who found it at this point but I remember reading about it.

3/1/2009 9:54 pm (et) Babs: That's the way I remember it too, Fan. It didn't look that deep.

3/1/2009 9:54 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: The whole thing could have been decided earlier if Mac had just put all his troops in.

3/1/2009 9:54 pm (et) bluelady: I would have to look at old pictures to see the lay of the creek at that time...if it was wadable... I don't know if it was steep on the other side or not.

3/1/2009 9:55 pm (et) bluelady: amen LF.

3/1/2009 9:55 pm (et) Susansweet: Right and he didn't and finally the sun sets.

3/1/2009 9:55 pm (et) mobile_96: blue, not likely the creek was wadeable during that period.

3/1/2009 9:56 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: The creek could have been swollen, or "swimming" as Waugh puts it.

3/1/2009 9:56 pm (et) Susansweet: Holding the ground they had held in the morning except the mere bridge says Neighbor Jones.

3/1/2009 9:57 pm (et) bluelady: I didn't think so mobile.

3/1/2009 9:57 pm (et) mobile_96: And, with the men struggling to try and "wade" they would have been sitting ducks for the sharpshooters both on the bluff and at the top.

3/1/2009 9:57 pm (et) Susansweet: Right.

3/1/2009 9:58 pm (et) mobile_96: I have a story about that area told to me by a U.S. Army historian who was working with Jay Luvaas.

3/1/2009 9:58 pm (et) mobile_96: If we have a bit of time.

3/1/2009 9:58 pm (et) Susansweet: Go ahead.

3/1/2009 9:59 pm (et) mobile_96: Pete, retired army, was visiting there at the same time as Luvaas (writer of several battlefield guides).

3/1/2009 10:00 pm (et) mobile_96: Luvaas wanted to know if the creek could be waded, so, he had Pete, put on a pair of chest high waders.

3/1/2009 10:00 pm (et) mobile_96: And wade the creek on both sides of the bridge.

3/1/2009 10:01 pm (et) mobile_96: Pete did, almost losing his baloney sandwich (true story) because of slipping into potholes.

3/1/2009 10:02 pm (et) mobile_96: The water came very high on his chest. So, at this time in history would be just wadeable, However .

3/1/2009 10:03 pm (et) mobile_96: Luvaas found discovered, at the time of the battle, there were no local farmers that had erected dams on their property before the battle.

3/1/2009 10:03 pm (et) Susansweet: And that would make a big difference right ?

3/1/2009 10:03 pm (et) mobile_96: In the years since, several dams have been built up from the bridge, which has lowered the water level to the point where it could finally be waded.

3/1/2009 10:04 pm (et) bluelady: Right.

3/1/2009 10:04 pm (et) Susansweet: There ya have it . Good story The Night the General Was Fired next chapter.

3/1/2009 10:04 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Well, that explains a lot.

3/1/2009 10:05 pm (et) Susansweet: Now Lincoln issues the Emancipation Proclamation and visits Mac.

3/1/2009 10:05 pm (et) mobile_96: So, even if it could be waded, (with water chest high) they would be easily picked off by the rebs on the bluffside, Plus, their side of the creek is very steep, making it even harder to get across safely.

3/1/2009 10:05 pm (et) bluelady: Thinking he would surely move.

3/1/2009 10:05 pm (et) Susansweet: And nobody has congratulated Mac on his win.

3/1/2009 10:06 pm (et) bluelady: That is what I thought mobile that it was steep on the other side to get any foot hold once there.

3/1/2009 10:06 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: And Lincoln refers to the Army as McClellan's body guard.

3/1/2009 10:06 pm (et) bluelady: Right some kind of win. alls that he had was the field.

3/1/2009 10:07 pm (et) Susansweet: That, and his asking why are Macs horses tired are two great quotes.

3/1/2009 10:07 pm (et) bluelady: That seems to be a great description of the army.

3/1/2009 10:07 pm (et) bluelady: LOL Susan you and I are thinking alike.

3/1/2009 10:07 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: All that training at West Point and no one taught him that his Commander in Chief must be obeyed.

3/1/2009 10:08 pm (et) bluelady: Please tell me what your horses have DONE to make them tired?

3/1/2009 10:08 pm (et) Susansweet: And even then even then he thinks if he is relieved he willbe given the Army of the West.

3/1/2009 10:08 pm (et) bluelady: lol LF

3/1/2009 10:08 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Lincoln was getting P-----.

3/1/2009 10:08 pm (et) Susansweet: Like Lincoln is going to allow him to mess up another Army?

3/1/2009 10:09 pm (et) bluelady: I have won a great victory...and now you FIRE me?

3/1/2009 10:09 pm (et) Susansweet: He's got the slows.

3/1/2009 10:09 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Maybe he thought if the horses needed so much rest, so did Mac.

3/1/2009 10:10 pm (et) cwbksell: It wasn't just Mac who won by "driving the enemy from our land", Meade made the same mistake at Gettysburg.

3/1/2009 10:10 pm (et) Susansweet: The two envelopes was a great story too. You sort of know this information but the way Waugh tells the story you are wondering what will happen even though you say to yourself , Wait I know what happens .

3/1/2009 10:10 pm (et) Pvt Miles: Burnside is a curious choice as a replacement... he didn't exactly shine at Antietam.

3/1/2009 10:11 pm (et) bluelady: But at least Meade made the attempt to follow Lee...Mac just sat there for almost 6 weeks.

3/1/2009 10:11 pm (et) bluelady: It was either him or Hooker...and Burnside did not want it to go to Hooker so took it.

3/1/2009 10:11 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: McClellan knew it was coming and handled it as graciously as he could, but the farewell to the troops was a bit over the top.

3/1/2009 10:12 pm (et) Susansweet: No Miles and he didn't want the job either.

3/1/2009 10:12 pm (et) Susansweet: As was everything with Mac , Fan.

3/1/2009 10:12 pm (et) bluelady: Very McClellan like I would say.. over the top.

3/1/2009 10:12 pm (et) bluelady: And Like Susan said Burnside did not want the Job.

3/1/2009 10:13 pm (et) Susansweet: And Waugh ends the chapter with If McClellan could fail then who of them could succeed.

3/1/2009 10:13 pm (et) Susansweet: Of his other classmates.

3/1/2009 10:13 pm (et) mobile_96: Right, Burnside took what he figured was the lesser of 2 evils.

3/1/2009 10:13 pm (et) Susansweet: Last Chapter tonight Caught in the Rain.

3/1/2009 10:14 pm (et) bluelady: Well as it turns out no one from the class of 46,

3/1/2009 10:14 pm (et) bluelady: Stoneman

3/1/2009 10:14 pm (et) Susansweet: We meet Stoneman who by the way was a commander at the Drum Barracks in late 1860's or early 70's.

3/1/2009 10:14 pm (et) bluelady: Or otherwise known as Hooker's scapegoat.

3/1/2009 10:15 pm (et) Susansweet: And then Governor of California for one term.

3/1/2009 10:15 pm (et) Susansweet: Right , Hooker's scapegoat good description.

3/1/2009 10:15 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Cool, Susan, so you've read up on him?

3/1/2009 10:15 pm (et) bluelady: Cool didn't he also come west after Chancellorsville?

3/1/2009 10:16 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I felt so sorry for Stoneman. What a miserable march.

3/1/2009 10:16 pm (et) Susansweet: Just those two bits of information.

3/1/2009 10:16 pm (et) Pvt Miles: With hemorrhoids, I'd say the cavalry was a poor career choice for Stoneman.

3/1/2009 10:16 pm (et) Susansweet: And the hemorrhoid thing.

3/1/2009 10:16 pm (et) cwbksell: Have you noticed how with the Union army, whenever they decide to attack, mother nature seems to throw them a left curve? Naturally, by the time Stonemen is ready to take the cavalry across the river it rains to flood stage. What luck.

3/1/2009 10:17 pm (et) Susansweet: Without bad luck the union army would have no luck at all.

3/1/2009 10:18 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Ouch. Maybe he had a whoopie cushion in the saddle.

3/1/2009 10:18 pm (et) Susansweet: Then there is the Band song the Night they drove old Dixie down that sings about Stoneman's cavalry came and tore up the tracks again.

3/1/2009 10:18 pm (et) bluelady: Right at least in this campaign.

3/1/2009 10:18 pm (et) cwbksell: Stoneman needed a toilet set for a saddle. (a little hole in the middle).

3/1/2009 10:19 pm (et) Susansweet: Well a McCellan saddle had a hole all the way down the middle of the saddle.

3/1/2009 10:19 pm (et) bluelady: Oh yeah.. I remember that song...vaguely.

3/1/2009 10:19 pm (et) bluelady: lol bksell.

3/1/2009 10:19 pm (et) Susansweet: One of my favorites and for years I thought they were singing Stonewall.

3/1/2009 10:19 pm (et) Susansweet: Which actually doesn't make sense.

3/1/2009 10:19 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Rain never seems to stop the rebs. I'm not going to comment on the saddle.

3/1/2009 10:20 pm (et) Pvt Miles: Maybe he had Stoneman in mind when he designed that saddle.

3/1/2009 10:20 pm (et) Susansweet: Well Fan as i was told once when inquiring if a Cajun festival was going to go on in the rain . I was told , " A little rain don't hurt no Cajun"

3/1/2009 10:20 pm (et) bluelady: I was going to comment that rain thing and the rebs...the saddle...well...none needed :)

3/1/2009 10:20 pm (et) Susansweet: Any other comments on Stoneman or any other part of the chapters for tonight?

3/1/2009 10:21 pm (et) cwbksell: That was the difference between the North and the South. The North saw all these excuses while the South just went and did it.

3/1/2009 10:21 pm (et) bluelady: None here.

3/1/2009 10:21 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I don't think McClellan had Stoneman's comfort in mind.

3/1/2009 10:21 pm (et) Susansweet: Good statement cwb.

3/1/2009 10:22 pm (et) bluelady: Except that Stoneman did slow down one rebel contingent...Anna Jackson and company.

3/1/2009 10:22 pm (et) Susansweet: Next week's Assignment Shots in the Night page 415 though Death of the Enthusiastic Fanatic page 455.

3/1/2009 10:22 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Difference between the North and South - the North didn't have as much to lose.

3/1/2009 10:23 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Thanks for another good job, Susan.

3/1/2009 10:24 pm (et) Susansweet: You are welcome Fan .