Book Chat
"Class of 1846:
From West Point to Appomattox"
John C. Waugh

This chat took place in the Civil War Home Chatroom on 02/22/09 and covered "From Under the Little Faded Cap" thru  "High Hopes and Paranoia".

2/22/2009 9:05 pm (et) Susansweet: The Class of 1846: From West Point to Appomattox : Stonewall Jackson, George McClellan and Their Brothers" by John C. Waugh

2/22/2009 9:05 pm (et) Susansweet: Welcome to a discussion for Feb. 22 Page 294 From Under the Little Faded Cap through High Hopes and Paranoia ending on page 356 Reminder, during the chat please refrain from using the PM option

2/22/2009 9:06 pm (et) Susansweet: First Chapter From Under the Little Faded Cap

2/22/2009 9:06 pm (et) Susansweet: Any one want to start?

2/22/2009 9:07 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Well, I like Jackson more and more as I read. There was no gray area with him...all or nothing.

2/22/2009 9:07 pm (et) Susansweet: We meet Jackson again and everyone seems to think what is under that faded cap is tetched .

2/22/2009 9:08 pm (et) Babs: I found a map of the valley in an old Bruce Catton book. This section was impossible without one.

2/22/2009 9:08 pm (et) Susansweet: He does seem to not have anything but black and white.

2/22/2009 9:08 pm (et) mobile_96: Teched until he bedazzles everyone.

2/22/2009 9:08 pm (et) Susansweet: I have found my smaller West point map book and it helps some.

2/22/2009 9:09 pm (et) Susansweet: Exactly Mobile.

2/22/2009 9:09 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I found a couple of maps also. I'm confused on one thing. When the author says they are moving up the valley, which direction are they going, north or south?

2/22/2009 9:09 pm (et) Susansweet: South

2/22/2009 9:10 pm (et) cwbksell: Up the valley is South. Down the valley is North.

2/22/2009 9:10 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: That's what I thought. The direction of the river.

2/22/2009 9:10 pm (et) 20thMass: Just look at the map upside down.

2/22/2009 9:11 pm (et) Susansweet: It is the way the river runs.

2/22/2009 9:11 pm (et) Susansweet: lol good idea Coly.

2/22/2009 9:11 pm (et) mobile_96: Right, everything is opposite.

2/22/2009 9:11 pm (et) Susansweet: I swear though there were times he got it turned around himself .

2/22/2009 9:11 pm (et) Babs: I wondered the same. Thanks.

2/22/2009 9:11 pm (et) cwbksell: The Kankakee river in Indiana and Illinois also runs North.

2/22/2009 9:12 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I thought he got it wrong at least once also.

2/22/2009 9:12 pm (et) Susansweet: Interesting, Bob, as a friend tried to tell me there was only one river in the US that ran that way. I told him he was wrong .

2/22/2009 9:12 pm (et) cwbksell: I live two blocks from the Kanakee River. Used to canoe it quite often.

2/22/2009 9:13 pm (et) Susansweet: I can't find it but know where the two places he mentioned where and the direction he said was backwards.

2/22/2009 9:14 pm (et) Susansweet: I always picture Banks with his head on a swivel trying to figure out what Jackson is doing .

2/22/2009 9:14 pm (et) mobile_96: Have a friend that has a cabin at the North end of Massanutton Mt.

2/22/2009 9:14 pm (et) cwbksell: The author covers the Valley Campaign in one chapter. I guess he felt he had no room for maps.

2/22/2009 9:15 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: There's ALWAYS room for maps.

2/22/2009 9:15 pm (et) Susansweet: No maps in this book at all if I remember.

2/22/2009 9:15 pm (et) Babs: nope. narey a one.

2/22/2009 9:16 pm (et) Susansweet: But a great story about Ewell and the map showing Munford where Jackson was.

2/22/2009 9:16 pm (et) Susansweet: on page 300.

2/22/2009 9:16 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Jackson was ordered only to keep Banks from leaving the Valley. He stretched that order to the limit.

2/22/2009 9:17 pm (et) Susansweet: Then it is followed by another great story about the poor guy who came looking for Munford.

2/22/2009 9:17 pm (et) cwbksell: Peter Cozzens has a new book on the Valley Campaign. He has written a good number of books and all have had excellent maps. I'll have to ask mobile to let us know for sure as I sold him the last one I had in stock last week.

2/22/2009 9:18 pm (et) Susansweet: I have heard that is a good book from friends that have it.

2/22/2009 9:18 pm (et) Susansweet: Robert Kricks book on Stonewall in the Valley also has tons of maps.

2/22/2009 9:19 pm (et) cwbksell: Jackson accomplished more than Mac did in West Virginia and he was even there for all the battles. (Mac was not.).

2/22/2009 9:19 pm (et) mobile_96: 13 maps

2/22/2009 9:20 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I liked the story about Jackson offering Dabney a position and when Dabney protests saying he was unused to arms, Jackson tells him to read the articles of war today and start tomorrow.

2/22/2009 9:20 pm (et) cwbksell: Thanks mobile. :o)

2/22/2009 9:20 pm (et) Susansweet: Interesting isn't it how Mac is never there.

2/22/2009 9:20 pm (et) mobile_96: good story LF.

2/22/2009 9:20 pm (et) Susansweet: yeah it is that easy huh ? According to Jackson I guess it is .

2/22/2009 9:21 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: You have to wonder what Jackson thought of Mac and if he knew Mac would have the slows.

2/22/2009 9:21 pm (et) Susansweet: He knew him from the Point .

2/22/2009 9:21 pm (et) Susansweet: And I am sure he knew how he had been doing so far.

2/22/2009 9:22 pm (et) mobile_96: Appears the maps are pretty small, less than 1/2 page from what I've seen.

2/22/2009 9:22 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Yes, and McClellan was nothing but smoke there too.

2/22/2009 9:22 pm (et) Susansweet: Good at book learning but not practice.

2/22/2009 9:23 pm (et) Susansweet: Front Royal the two First Marylands.

2/22/2009 9:23 pm (et) mobile_96: Loved his troops too much to let them get hurt in battle, If he could avoid it.

2/22/2009 9:23 pm (et) Susansweet: Hate when I hit send too soon.

2/22/2009 9:24 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: That was a good story, about the two First Marylands.

2/22/2009 9:24 pm (et) Susansweet: We meet Henry Kyd Douglas and Belle Boyd here too.

2/22/2009 9:24 pm (et) cwbksell: That was an advantage Lee had when ever he had to face a new commanding general. He knew them all from the Point and knew what they were going to do before they did it. He even realized he was in trouble when Lincoln picked Grant.

2/22/2009 9:24 pm (et) Susansweet: I had read it in another book but still such a good story.

2/22/2009 9:26 pm (et) cwbksell: Mac could not stand the sight of blood.

2/22/2009 9:26 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: That's right cwb. I think I read where he even made the comment that eventually Lincoln would put someone in charge that he couldn't figure out.

2/22/2009 9:26 pm (et) bluelady: The area they talk about is near Front Royal IIRC. Driving through there it is easy for me to see how anyone who really knew the area could use the mountains as a screen.

2/22/2009 9:27 pm (et) Susansweet: I haven't been down the valley that far. Have read quite a bit lately though. It is mountains everywhere right blue?

2/22/2009 9:27 pm (et) Susansweet: I know it is around Harper's Ferry .

2/22/2009 9:27 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Yes, Blue and if one didn't know the area how difficult it would be for them.

2/22/2009 9:27 pm (et) cwbksell: Another thing Lee knew about Grant was that while all the others would run back to Washington to regroup, Grant never did.

2/22/2009 9:27 pm (et) bluelady: Yes. but not like the Rockies...but still formidable.

2/22/2009 9:28 pm (et) Susansweet: Anymore comments on this chapter?

2/22/2009 9:28 pm (et) Susansweet: Moving on to My Friend , My Enemy

2/22/2009 9:29 pm (et) Susansweet: Gordon in Strasburg.

2/22/2009 9:29 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: McClellan constantly gives credit to himself and Jackson refuses to take any credit.

2/22/2009 9:30 pm (et) Susansweet: Gordon wants to attack and Banks doesn't.

2/22/2009 9:31 pm (et) bluelady: Here is where Gordon just knowing Jackson knew something was going to come but could not convince Banks.

2/22/2009 9:31 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I liked the exchanges between Gordon and Banks. Banks simply refused to budge, then had to skedaddle when Jackson is practically upon him.

2/22/2009 9:31 pm (et) Pvt Miles: David Strother, Banks' staff officer may have been familiar with the area, but he didn't know Jackson.

2/22/2009 9:31 pm (et) Susansweet: And Banks was more afraid of opinion.

2/22/2009 9:31 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: "It seems we were mistaken in our calculation."

2/22/2009 9:31 pm (et) bluelady: Right Susan because Gordon wanted to beat Jackson to the punch.

2/22/2009 9:32 pm (et) cwbksell: Didn't you think it interesting when Col. Gordon wanted to protect Front Royal instead of Strasburg and Banks refused to take his advice? There is the difference between the West Point commander vs. the politically appointed commander?

2/22/2009 9:33 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Good observation, cwb.

2/22/2009 9:33 pm (et) Susansweet: And Banks was the "best " of the appointed commanders. No clue.

2/22/2009 9:33 pm (et) bluelady: The politicians did not like the west the end, the west pointers were right.

2/22/2009 9:33 pm (et) bluelady: Susan, I hope that was in jest...;)

2/22/2009 9:34 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Banks not only barely escaped, but lost all the commissary.

2/22/2009 9:34 pm (et) Susansweet: Hence the title Commissary Banks.

2/22/2009 9:34 pm (et) mobile_96: Gordon thought they should have attacked earlier, but, from where they were sitting, decided they needed to retreat, Immediately.

2/22/2009 9:35 pm (et) bluelady: yep

2/22/2009 9:35 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Another difference between Jackson and McClellan here. I think Jackson;'s men loved h im also and he pushed them to the limit, unlike Mac.

2/22/2009 9:36 pm (et) cwbksell: Mac's men loved him also. He never made them go into battle. Who wants to be shot?

2/22/2009 9:36 pm (et) bluelady: And Jackson was out in front with them during the fight...not 2 miles to the rear!

2/22/2009 9:36 pm (et) Susansweet: I don't they loved him as much as they respected and understood what he wants them to do.

2/22/2009 9:37 pm (et) cwbksell: Sue, but only after they did it. :o)

2/22/2009 9:37 pm (et) Susansweet: I love how Jackson calls Taylor a wicked fellow for cursing his men for dodging fire.

2/22/2009 9:37 pm (et) Susansweet: Of course Bob.

2/22/2009 9:38 pm (et) 20thMass: McClellan was our most beloved generals in our history yet one of our worst generals.

2/22/2009 9:38 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Yes, Blue and when Jackson out in front , one of his men cried "Be jabers, have your eye on Ault Jack. I'll wager you he thinks them blatherin bangs are singin birds."

2/22/2009 9:39 pm (et) Susansweet: And he says to them Now Let's Holler!

2/22/2009 9:39 pm (et) Susansweet: And waves his cap over his head.

2/22/2009 9:39 pm (et) bluelady: yep and Jackson was not one to take cover.

2/22/2009 9:39 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Susan, I liked that one also. Jackson is such a character.

2/22/2009 9:40 pm (et) Susansweet: And as Gordon is leaving Winchester he is not only fired on by Jackson and his men but the people of Winchester .

2/22/2009 9:41 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Strother says they (the rebs) came through the valley like "a flood of dirty water". What a mental picture.

2/22/2009 9:41 pm (et) Susansweet: Dwight is not so lucky.

2/22/2009 9:41 pm (et) bluelady: How about how Jackson distancing himself from Gordon when Dwight tried to mention Gordon as an old friend..Janckson says "Friend of mine, sir? He was, sir once a friend."

2/22/2009 9:41 pm (et) Susansweet: That is a good picture.

2/22/2009 9:41 pm (et) cwbksell: I believe it was Winchester that change hands more often than any other town during the Civil War? Don't remember how many times.

2/22/2009 9:42 pm (et) Susansweet: That was interesting too Blue.

2/22/2009 9:42 pm (et) bluelady: I have heard the number 75 times mentioned..

2/22/2009 9:42 pm (et) Susansweet: No longer a friend , a worthy foe Waugh says but no longer a friend.

2/22/2009 9:42 pm (et) 20thMass: I think it was 75 times.

2/22/2009 9:42 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Blue, I also heard the number was in the 70's.

2/22/2009 9:43 pm (et) bluelady: Jackson distanced himself from old friends and Lee did the same by calling them "those people".

2/22/2009 9:43 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: How about Pendleton's father naming his cannon Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

2/22/2009 9:43 pm (et) mobile_96: Yes, upper 70's IIRC.

2/22/2009 9:43 pm (et) Susansweet: Good comparison Blue.

2/22/2009 9:44 pm (et) Susansweet: Those cannon are now at VMI.

2/22/2009 9:44 pm (et) bluelady: I think the 4 gospels are still at VMI.

2/22/2009 9:44 pm (et) Susansweet: yep they are.

2/22/2009 9:44 pm (et) cwbksell: They had a special bonding, not only from West Point but the Mexican War as well. I imagine it was very difficult to experience good friends on the other side.

2/22/2009 9:45 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I don't remember seeing them at VMI. Shoot.

2/22/2009 9:45 pm (et) Pvt Miles: Yes, they are at VMI.

2/22/2009 9:45 pm (et) Susansweet: I love how Jackson says Oh that my cavalry were in place and some one says Would Artillery do?

2/22/2009 9:46 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Page 320, finally Banks needs no urging from Gordon to get out.

2/22/2009 9:46 pm (et) cwbksell: I couldn't believe he had to go all the way to Ewell for permission to borrow his cavalry.

2/22/2009 9:47 pm (et) Susansweet: Right

2/22/2009 9:47 pm (et) Susansweet: Next chapter Delightful Excitement.

2/22/2009 9:47 pm (et) mobile_96: Especially after saying it was a direct order from Jackson.

2/22/2009 9:49 pm (et) Susansweet: Now Lincoln sends in that great general Fremont, another political general.

2/22/2009 9:49 pm (et) Susansweet: Who with out Kit Carson he would never have found the West .

2/22/2009 9:49 pm (et) bluelady: So much for pathfinder.

2/22/2009 9:50 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Fremont didn't want to be there, disobeyed Lincoln's first order.

2/22/2009 9:50 pm (et) Susansweet: That was not the way Fremont had hoped to spend the summer chasing that fanatic Jackson says Waugh.

2/22/2009 9:50 pm (et) Susansweet: He heads in the wrong direction.

2/22/2009 9:50 pm (et) Susansweet: See he didn't have Carson with him.

2/22/2009 9:51 pm (et) cwbksell: Fremont from the west and McDowell from the east to shut the gate on Jackson. Already in 1862, Lincoln is beginning to understand how to fight a war.

2/22/2009 9:51 pm (et) bluelady: One thing Fremont's men were able to do was to get Turner Ashby out of the way for good.

2/22/2009 9:51 pm (et) Pvt Miles: Lincoln, saw the opportunity to bag Jackson, but his generals just didn't seem to get it.

2/22/2009 9:52 pm (et) bluelady: For some reason the union generals could not get their men to march!

2/22/2009 9:52 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I loved how Jackson slipped through the gate as Strasburg, but will miss Ashby.

2/22/2009 9:52 pm (et) Susansweet: That was more Turner Ashby's fault that anything Fremont and his men did .

2/22/2009 9:52 pm (et) cwbksell: Ashby did the same as Union General Kearney. Got too far in front of his men and was shot dead.

2/22/2009 9:53 pm (et) bluelady: Well true...but.

2/22/2009 9:53 pm (et) mobile_96: More like the generals couldn't find their way to the roads.

2/22/2009 9:53 pm (et) Susansweet: Ashby was a knight errant . The embodiment of Sir Walter Scot's legends.

2/22/2009 9:54 pm (et) Susansweet: And burning bridges is what he did best.

2/22/2009 9:54 pm (et) bluelady: This was the culminating battle of the Valley campaign. Jackson did his job...he kept, McDowell, Banks and Fremont away from McClellan.

2/22/2009 9:54 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Wish they had a picture in the book as he is described so vividly, but I just found one.

2/22/2009 9:55 pm (et) Susansweet: There is only one photo of Ashby and it is in death.

2/22/2009 9:55 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I have one in General in Gray.

2/22/2009 9:55 pm (et) mobile_96: Think of how much more Ashby could have done If, he had put his men under some control.

2/22/2009 9:55 pm (et) Susansweet: He died in the morning of his glory according to Waugh.

2/22/2009 9:56 pm (et) Susansweet: That is the one Fan. He is dead in that picture.

2/22/2009 9:56 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I agree, Mobile but maybe that's part of what made them so effective.

2/22/2009 9:57 pm (et) Susansweet: He was a partisan ranger even wilder than Mosby but not as bad as the Missouri boys.

2/22/2009 9:59 pm (et) Susansweet: Jackson becomes a legend in his time, Mary Chestnut takes note of him and Ewell changes his mind about him.

2/22/2009 9:59 pm (et) bluelady: He had raised the a militia group before the war called Ashby's mountain rangers. there is a pic some think is him in a uniform of that group before the war.

2/22/2009 10:00 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Yeah, Mary Chestnut liked him and she didn't have much good to say about anything.

2/22/2009 10:00 pm (et) Susansweet: Don't know about that one Blue. Have to look for it.

2/22/2009 10:00 pm (et) Susansweet: Last chapter?

2/22/2009 10:00 pm (et) bluelady: Ewell was with him Ewell was successful...and even in Ewell Jackson had someone he could count on. their ability to overlook each others idiosyncrasies made them successful.

2/22/2009 10:00 pm (et) Susansweet: High Hopes and Paranoia.

2/22/2009 10:00 pm (et) bluelady: I have it in my confederate generals series.

2/22/2009 10:00 pm (et) Susansweet: Which one?

2/22/2009 10:01 pm (et) Susansweet: Now we finally get to Little Mac.

2/22/2009 10:01 pm (et) bluelady: That pic I described of Ashby.

2/22/2009 10:01 pm (et) Susansweet: McDowell and Mansfield both don't care for Mac , he vaults over them to get command

2/22/2009 10:02 pm (et) Susansweet: He was the only man born who could strut sitting down.

2/22/2009 10:02 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: It's a wonder no one saw through the paranoia and relieved him of his duties.

2/22/2009 10:02 pm (et) bluelady: It is amazing that Mac becomes even more paranoid as the war continues.

2/22/2009 10:02 pm (et) Susansweet: Which book I meant.

2/22/2009 10:02 pm (et) cwbksell: It was no surprise to anyone that Mac's star should rise, but no one thought so soon.

2/22/2009 10:02 pm (et) mobile_96: Susan, doubt if many liked him, for that very reason.

2/22/2009 10:02 pm (et) Susansweet: And he believe his own press notices.

2/22/2009 10:03 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I like when he decides not to become dictator.

2/22/2009 10:03 pm (et) Susansweet: I know Scott was old and falling apart but I have never liked the way Mac treated him.

2/22/2009 10:03 pm (et) bluelady: What did Pinkerton use to determine the strength of the enemy?

2/22/2009 10:03 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Imagination.

2/22/2009 10:04 pm (et) mobile_96: LF, that was generous of him, wasn't it.

2/22/2009 10:04 pm (et) Susansweet: lol

2/22/2009 10:04 pm (et) bluelady: Mac liked him until he thought Scott was out to get him.

2/22/2009 10:04 pm (et) cwbksell: I wonder what Lee thought of Mac's promotion. He outranked every one except Scott.

2/22/2009 10:04 pm (et) bluelady: lol LF

2/22/2009 10:05 pm (et) Susansweet: Right , he liked Scott when he thought he was helping him. Then when he wanted his job not so much.

2/22/2009 10:05 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: If Lee knew Mac, he was probably chuckling.

2/22/2009 10:05 pm (et) mobile_96: He did have some spies in the field, but never trusted them, so inflated the numbers to be on the safe side, then Mac added a 'few' more, is what I understand.

2/22/2009 10:05 pm (et) Susansweet: Only member of the cabinet he liked was Blair and him not so much.

2/22/2009 10:06 pm (et) Susansweet: Mac sure didn't understand Lincoln.

2/22/2009 10:06 pm (et) cwbksell: While on the peninsula, the Confederates would send their cavalry out in front of the Union Army and ride in circles to give the impression that there were thousands of mounted troops when there were only about a hundred. Of course they had to tell Pinkerton who told Mac. So there you have it.

2/22/2009 10:07 pm (et) Pvt Miles: Mac wanted 250 regiments of infantry-225,000 troops-100 field batteries of 600 guns & 15,000 men, 28 regiments of cavalry, with 25,500 men 5 eng. regiments of 7,500 troops and a strong supporting naval force...... that's all.

2/22/2009 10:07 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I may be way off base on this, but given Mac's boastfulness along with his reluctance to fight, is there some sence of an inferiority complex here. Don't laugh. Just a thought.

2/22/2009 10:07 pm (et) Susansweet: All those gray uniforms looked alike huh?

2/22/2009 10:08 pm (et) Susansweet: I think he had a fear of failure.

2/22/2009 10:08 pm (et) bluelady: And once he had them he didn't want to do anything with the....the were Mac's body guard!

2/22/2009 10:08 pm (et) mobile_96: Too much go-juice fuzzed up the count.

2/22/2009 10:08 pm (et) Susansweet: He attempted it and failed he could handle that .

2/22/2009 10:08 pm (et) bluelady: LF.. I am betting a psychiatrist today would see it that way.

2/22/2009 10:08 pm (et) 20thMass: Mac could have used some Fighter Squadrons too.

2/22/2009 10:09 pm (et) Susansweet: Well he had Lowe and his balloon.

2/22/2009 10:09 pm (et) bluelady: How about tanks from India...(elephants)

2/22/2009 10:09 pm (et) Susansweet: One of the books I read on dealing with gifted children talks about fear of failure.

2/22/2009 10:09 pm (et) bluelady: I thought that came at Fredericksburg Susan...the balloon that is

2/22/2009 10:10 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Well, why couldn't Lowe see the 10 confederates they were up against?

2/22/2009 10:10 pm (et) Susansweet: Some gifted children (hence adults) will not attempt to do something if they think they can't do it perfect.

2/22/2009 10:10 pm (et) bluelady: And Mac was gifted.

2/22/2009 10:10 pm (et) mobile_96: Part of the time Susan, he had the balloons.

2/22/2009 10:10 pm (et) 20thMass: Those who don't fail well never learn to succeed.

2/22/2009 10:10 pm (et) Susansweet: No it was at Seven Pines.

2/22/2009 10:10 pm (et) Susansweet: Exactly Coly.

2/22/2009 10:10 pm (et) bluelady: Very true Susan...describes my youngest daughter to the T.

2/22/2009 10:10 pm (et) Susansweet: And Mac was and had been a gifted child.

2/22/2009 10:11 pm (et) mobile_96: Trees got in the way, then Pinkerton made the reports.

2/22/2009 10:11 pm (et) Susansweet: I worked with those kind of kids for over 20 years .I know that subject well .

2/22/2009 10:11 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I like the quote 20th.

2/22/2009 10:11 pm (et) cwbksell: Hay Miles, remember when that old guy was sitting on his front porch in his rocker when the army went by and said. "I didn't know there were that many people in the world." ? Sounds like what Mac wanted for number in an army.

2/22/2009 10:11 pm (et) bluelady: lol cwb

2/22/2009 10:12 pm (et) Pvt Miles: Right, cwb

2/22/2009 10:12 pm (et) Susansweet: I love the quote from Lincoln about if Mac is not using the army he would like to use it for a while.

2/22/2009 10:13 pm (et) bluelady: Even Meigs tried to get Mac to move...and Mac would ignore the president...I think Lincoln had the patience of Job when it came to Mac at this time.

2/22/2009 10:13 pm (et) Susansweet: Any more discussion on this chapter or anything we have read so far?

2/22/2009 10:13 pm (et) cwbksell: Or when Lincoln said, "I'd hold his horse if he would just go and fight."

2/22/2009 10:14 pm (et) Susansweet: I agree blue , I would have gone out there and smack him one or rather his horse to get it moving .

2/22/2009 10:14 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Mac was sick in bed until he thought he was losing control of the battle strategy (of which he had none).

2/22/2009 10:14 pm (et) bluelady: Nope.

2/22/2009 10:14 pm (et) Susansweet: Anymore?

2/22/2009 10:15 pm (et) Susansweet: Next week :March 1 Page 357 Maryland My Maryland through Caught in the Rain ending on page 414.

2/22/2009 10:15 pm (et) Susansweet: Next book Kenneth Noe Perryville : This Grand Havoc of Battle Also recommend Blue &Gray magazine issue on Perryville for maps.

2/22/2009 10:15 pm (et) bluelady: Heck with that Susan.. I would have hired anyone else at this point to lead them...but I think Lincoln knew how much the troops adored him and firing him at this point would cause more harm than good.

2/22/2009 10:15 pm (et) Pvt Miles: Waugh says that Mac blamed everything but the weather on the "incapables"

2/22/2009 10:15 pm (et) Susansweet: Don't know when we will start the next book but reminding people so they can get it.

2/22/2009 10:16 pm (et) Susansweet: I know anyone would have been better but who did Lincoln have ?

2/22/2009 10:16 pm (et) Susansweet: Grant was years away.

2/22/2009 10:17 pm (et) Susansweet: Three more weeks on this book .

2/22/2009 10:17 pm (et) Susansweet: Guys you are all amazing . I really enjoy chatting with you about books.

2/22/2009 10:17 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I have to work the week after we finish the book so could we have a week's break.

2/22/2009 10:17 pm (et) mobile_96: Not many choices at that point Susan.

2/22/2009 10:17 pm (et) bluelady: That is also the point of Lincoln patience at this time too.

2/22/2009 10:18 pm (et) Susansweet: I am sure we will have a break between we usually do.

2/22/2009 10:18 pm (et) Susansweet: True Mobile.

2/22/2009 10:18 pm (et) Susansweet: And look who got chosen after.

2/22/2009 10:18 pm (et) 20thMass: How many pages is the book.

2/22/2009 10:18 pm (et) bluelady: 3 more weeks puts us to the ides of march

2/22/2009 10:18 pm (et) cwbksell: I'd like to mention that many of the names you have covered in the last few chapters (as well as the book) have biographies or memoirs. Some that come to mind that I have in stock are "Allegheny Ed" Johnson, Belle Boyd, Henry Kid Douglas, General Gordon, Jackson, Ewell, John Imboden, Turner Ashby, Mac, and Allan Pinkerton to mention a few. Let me know if interested. Thank you and a pleasure talkin' with all of you.

2/22/2009 10:18 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I'm really enjoying this I have all the books.