Book Chat
"Class of 1846:
From West Point to Appomattox"
By
John C. Waugh

This chat took place in the Civil War Home Chatroom on 01/11/09 and covered the "Foreword" thru "Oh, For the Sight of Our Native Land".

1/11/2009 9:14 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Welcome to tonight's Book Chat on John Waugh's "Class of 1846" Please remember to refrain from using PM during Chat.

1/11/2009 9:15 pm (et) amhistoryguy: In the Forward, any comments?

1/11/2009 9:15 pm (et) Babs: Shotgun mentioned he liked the first part of the book best. I really liked tonight's reading. I hope it moves as smoothly when it gets to the war.

1/11/2009 9:15 pm (et) amhistoryguy: The point that McPherson makes in the Forward about the Class of 1846 forming a real brotherhood, IMO, really can’t be overstated. It identifies one of the great tragedies of the Civil War, and it also reveals a strength in our military that extends to the present day, IMO

1/11/2009 9:16 pm (et) amhistoryguy: I’ve shared the bond formed between team mates, I have a bond with my biological brothers, but the bond I formed with comrades in arms is by far the most powerful even many years later, yet I could not begin to explain why.

1/11/2009 9:16 pm (et) Susansweet: Good statement Dave. I have heard that from others in the service.

1/11/2009 9:16 pm (et) ole: That brotherhood mostly worked, but it kept a few promising officers out of the loop.

1/11/2009 9:17 pm (et) bluelady: Another thing I will mention is that in the foreword it does mention it pays a lot of attention to Mac and Jackson. I have heard the book gets a bad rap for that but really if you look at it...the class of 46 was a study in contrasts and the foreword points that out as well.

1/11/2009 9:17 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Not sure I understand what you mean ole.

1/11/2009 9:18 pm (et) cwbksell: I know why. When you are in combat, you learn to watch out for everyone and they watch out for you. Your life depends on it.

1/11/2009 9:18 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I really liked the way he explained the two themes of the brothers' war - never had thought about it in that context.

1/11/2009 9:18 pm (et) calcav: Good point Ole, the brotherhood also kept some real zeros in place for far too long.

1/11/2009 9:18 pm (et) Susansweet: Blue it surely is a study in contrast when you compare Mac and Jackson.

1/11/2009 9:18 pm (et) amhistoryguy: I think it goes deeper than that, the bond is formed long before any of them see combat.

1/11/2009 9:18 pm (et) bluelady: I think the bond is because you have learned to survive in a common cause with other who know what you are going through because that too are going through it.

1/11/2009 9:19 pm (et) Susansweet: True Calcav, if you weren't West Point you weren't a good officer some felt.

1/11/2009 9:19 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Part of it shared experience, but it goes deeper.

1/11/2009 9:20 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: It's difficult to imagine what they must have felt facing one of their bonded brothers across the battlefield.

1/11/2009 9:20 pm (et) calcav: My point was if you were West Point people assumed you were a talented officer. Not always true in wartime.

1/11/2009 9:20 pm (et) bluelady: The shared experience with survival attached as other have said.

1/11/2009 9:20 pm (et) ole: The first link is West Point. A fraternity.

1/11/2009 9:21 pm (et) Susansweet: The elitist of being a West Pointer did keep some in place who should not have been for sure.

1/11/2009 9:21 pm (et) Susansweet: Kept others out too.

1/11/2009 9:21 pm (et) Babs: When I saw that he left out some of the class in the "Cast of Characters" I was disappointed. Then as I saw how quickly some disappeared, I was ok with it.

1/11/2009 9:22 pm (et) cwbksell: Many of them were fighting because they had to. Not because they wanted to. especially when some of their closest friends were in the other side of the line.

1/11/2009 9:22 pm (et) bluelady: Right ole.  With the hazing to go along with it.

1/11/2009 9:22 pm (et) amhistoryguy: I thought it was a nice touch. I would also have liked to see a map of the West Point installation. I looked for one on line but wasn’t successful in finding anything helpful in giving me a feel for the campus in 1842.

1/11/2009 9:23 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Regarding the Cast of Characters.

1/11/2009 9:23 pm (et) Susansweet: I have forgotten if Last in Class had a map. I don't think so. Just pictures .

1/11/2009 9:23 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: That's why Waugh devotes so much of the book to West Point, I think; to give us a sense of how close they all were.

1/11/2009 9:23 pm (et) ejn: Blue, I going to jump ahead a little, hazing isn't addressed in the chapter on West Point.

1/11/2009 9:23 pm (et) Babs: I like have the the list and find myself referring back to it.

1/11/2009 9:23 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Exactly LF

1/11/2009 9:24 pm (et) Susansweet: I like that list too.

1/11/2009 9:24 pm (et) bluelady: Babs, that was explained in the foreword as well...mostly because they probably disappeared right after their duty time was up into civilian life building those railroads and roads.

1/11/2009 9:24 pm (et) calcav: Found myself doing the same thing Babs.

1/11/2009 9:24 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I also looked for a map. I really liked the cast of characters. Gives us something we can refer to from time to time as I'm used to having to sometimes keep my own list.

1/11/2009 9:25 pm (et) mobile_96: Blue, some never made the examinations.

1/11/2009 9:25 pm (et) Susansweet: Like that it included their ranking in class too.

1/11/2009 9:26 pm (et) bluelady: Well someone mentioned a fraternity...and well hazing goes with it as well as how plebes were treated...but I know I am jumping a bit so will not comment until it gets to that point.

1/11/2009 9:26 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Anything more from the Foreword or Cast section?

1/11/2009 9:26 pm (et) ole: I immediately liked Thomas J. Lowe.

1/11/2009 9:26 pm (et) bluelady: Right mobile ..including the physical exam.

1/11/2009 9:27 pm (et) amhistoryguy: From Every Degree of Provincialism - Comments ?

1/11/2009 9:27 pm (et) Susansweet: I like how the list describes his leaving West Point. Makes me want to know more .

1/11/2009 9:27 pm (et) bluelady: ole..the class bully? hehe

1/11/2009 9:27 pm (et) calcav: 280 demerits...Lowe must have had a very good time.

1/11/2009 9:28 pm (et) Susansweet: Makes you wonder what would have happened to Jackson if the first choice had stayed at West Point.

1/11/2009 9:28 pm (et) ole: Dismissed for irrepressibly questionable conduct.

1/11/2009 9:28 pm (et) bluelady: They were chosen to attend there just as they are today...if you have the grades, talent and character...you can get in.

1/11/2009 9:29 pm (et) calcav: And...you had to have a political patron.

1/11/2009 9:29 pm (et) Susansweet: And you are the one nominated by your congressman.

1/11/2009 9:29 pm (et) Babs: I like George Derby. Some of his books are very pricey on Amazon.

1/11/2009 9:29 pm (et) amhistoryguy: This chapter gave a pretty good idea of the prospective cadets journey into the unknown.

1/11/2009 9:30 pm (et) bluelady: Right...It was interesting that there was competition in some districts for the nomination...Jackson basically lucked out.

1/11/2009 9:30 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I thought it was interesting how the first chapter compared the difficulty Jackson had getting the appointment to McClellan, who already comes across as somewhat of an egotist.

1/11/2009 9:30 pm (et) bluelady: Right...I find it hard to believe Mac was homesick...but then he was very young.

1/11/2009 9:30 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Jackson basically went and took his appointment.

1/11/2009 9:31 pm (et) cwbksell: Mac was only 15 + 7 months.

1/11/2009 9:31 pm (et) Susansweet: He knew he wanted the education and he was going to get it.

1/11/2009 9:31 pm (et) bluelady: By doing that, he showed me what he would become...someone focused on the goal.

1/11/2009 9:32 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Yeah, AHG, I thought that showed a lot of determination.

1/11/2009 9:32 pm (et) Susansweet: So he was five years younger even than some of the others.

1/11/2009 9:32 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Can't understand why Mac was homesick - all he needed was a mirror.

1/11/2009 9:32 pm (et) bluelady: Right and even at that he already had 2 years of college at the U of PA.

1/11/2009 9:32 pm (et) amhistoryguy: The chapters are short, so if I move past something that needs to be brought up, feel free to move back, but not forward please : )

1/11/2009 9:32 pm (et) calcav: Jackson played the orphan card and it worked.

1/11/2009 9:33 pm (et) Babs: And he already had gone to college for two years.

1/11/2009 9:33 pm (et) cwbksell: Jackson got it, not with his ability, but with his determination.

1/11/2009 9:33 pm (et) bluelady: LOL LF he got over the homesickness pretty quick too.

1/11/2009 9:33 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Sighing for What We Left Behind - comments?

1/11/2009 9:33 pm (et) bluelady: Derby? IIRC played that card as well?

1/11/2009 9:34 pm (et) Susansweet: I like the titles of the Chapters, catchy.

1/11/2009 9:34 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I was amazed at the orphan thing. I always thought one had to come from a prosperous or well-known family. Now I find out you had a better chance if you were an orphan. Why?

1/11/2009 9:34 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Easy to see how a Lemon sucking story may have been stated regarding Jackson : P A hard person to get to know. I felt sorry for Maury.

1/11/2009 9:35 pm (et) bluelady: One thing this narrative does not touch on much is the physical difficulty of this journey.

1/11/2009 9:35 pm (et) calcav: Loved the first blackboard recitation for Jackson. Sweat running down his face and the instructors hiding the smiles.

1/11/2009 9:35 pm (et) Susansweet: Deby talking about the two boards was an interesting thought, You face the board and then you turn around and face the other board.

1/11/2009 9:35 pm (et) bluelady: LF maybe the free education had something to do with it?

1/11/2009 9:36 pm (et) bluelady: Derby was able to see things with a sense of humor.

1/11/2009 9:36 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Weren't you saying "C'mon Tom" through the whole experience?

1/11/2009 9:36 pm (et) amhistoryguy: The best place in the world to coach athletics is an orphanage, maybe the same for teaching : )

1/11/2009 9:37 pm (et) calcav: Mac sure got over the homesickness when he found his place at the top of the class.

1/11/2009 9:37 pm (et) bluelady: How about when Maury tried to make light conversation with Jackson?

1/11/2009 9:38 pm (et) bluelady: That gave you a peek into his personality as well.

1/11/2009 9:38 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: AHG, do you happen to know if Delafield, WISC was named for Delafield. You're from hat area.

1/11/2009 9:38 pm (et) calcav: The bit with Maury was a hoot. Maury was a major player here in Corinth.

1/11/2009 9:39 pm (et) amhistoryguy: As Intelligible as Sanskrit - comments

1/11/2009 9:39 pm (et) cwbksell: Maury didn't get anywhere with Jackson. Jackson listened, but rarely said anything.

1/11/2009 9:39 pm (et) Babs: This has really helped me understand how Little Mac got to be the way he was. i have seen some school kids like that. Brilliant, everyone tells them so. Everything comes easy for them and they come to think they are better than everyone- even their president.

1/11/2009 9:40 pm (et) amhistoryguy: I don't believe it is LF - I believe the first settlers in Delafield were from well before 1840's.

1/11/2009 9:41 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Mac = book smart - few social skills.

1/11/2009 9:41 pm (et) bluelady: I may have missed it but was the sanskrit comment the author's or did one of the "plebes" mention it?

1/11/2009 9:41 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Good observation, Babs. It does explain a lot.

1/11/2009 9:41 pm (et) amhistoryguy: I thought the description of mathematics as West Point’s “academic flywheel” as spot on from everything I’ve read. Seven of ten hours on math, whew.

1/11/2009 9:41 pm (et) Babs: AHG, Exactly!!!

1/11/2009 9:41 pm (et) calcav: Homesickness was a very real feeling to these youngsters. Funny though that A.P. Hill thought King the family dog would do a better job of writing than the other members of the family.

1/11/2009 9:41 pm (et) bluelady: mac even said he never studied before WP but did a little there.

1/11/2009 9:42 pm (et) cwbksell: You must remember Lincoln was not getting good press at the time Mac had the army. Most people then probably thought they could do better than Lincoln.

1/11/2009 9:42 pm (et) Pvt Miles: I liked the personal sketches of Albert Church, Theophile D'Oremieulx, etc

1/11/2009 9:42 pm (et) bluelady: lol I forgot about that calcav.

1/11/2009 9:42 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Could George McClellan have been any more full of himself? “I study a little.”

1/11/2009 9:43 pm (et) bluelady: And he was not happy at ending up 3 in the class.

1/11/2009 9:43 pm (et) Susansweet: Reading about Mac at school reminds me of some of the students I taught over the years. I spent 20 years teaching Gifted kids. One of the things I had to teach some is humility.

1/11/2009 9:43 pm (et) bluelady: ..at this point.

1/11/2009 9:43 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Has anyone read anything about how life was at a "regular" university during that period ?

1/11/2009 9:43 pm (et) bluelady: Amen Susan and they still would look at you as if to say...why should I.

1/11/2009 9:44 pm (et) Susansweet: Not always Blue

1/11/2009 9:44 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Humility, unfortunately, was not a subject taught at West Point .

1/11/2009 9:44 pm (et) Susansweet: My mantra was always just because you are gifted doesn't make you better.

1/11/2009 9:45 pm (et) bluelady: I imagine exams were by recitation at other places...That seemed to be the way they were tested on how well they really knew the material.

1/11/2009 9:45 pm (et) Babs: I'm glad so many of these guys' letters survived. There is a nice variety of input.

1/11/2009 9:45 pm (et) Susansweet: And then there is the perfection syndrome that kicks in and Mac I believe had that . He had to be the best .

1/11/2009 9:45 pm (et) bluelady: I say that too Susan...and have said that to my youngest...she got the message but others in her class still thought themselves as elitists.

1/11/2009 9:46 pm (et) Babs: Interesting that some were told their hair was too long. I wish they had a picture of Pickett with a buzz cut.

1/11/2009 9:46 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Recitation and application are two different things. It's going to be interesting to see how these guys did in battle (although we know the answer for some of them).

1/11/2009 9:47 pm (et) Susansweet: In battle I am sure they didn't use much French.

1/11/2009 9:47 pm (et) bluelady: I wonder how short their hair had to be... They never said.. I don't think at that time it was a buzz but they did cut the ringletts

1/11/2009 9:47 pm (et) amhistoryguy: I was thinking of the contrast of discipline between military and regular university.

1/11/2009 9:47 pm (et) Susansweet: Or rather they might have used certain "French" words.

1/11/2009 9:47 pm (et) calcav: "cadet Jackson, from Virginia, is a jackass." Dabney Maury.

1/11/2009 9:47 pm (et) cwbksell: Some German could have helped.

1/11/2009 9:47 pm (et) ole: I noted that #1 in the class rated Colonel and dead last became a Major General.

1/11/2009 9:47 pm (et) Babs: Maury may have called him a few things in French.

1/11/2009 9:48 pm (et) Susansweet: Would be interesting to compare the Harvard Boys education with the Cadets of West Point.

1/11/2009 9:48 pm (et) bluelady: I get the feeling French was taught only because of where the books were purchased.

1/11/2009 9:48 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I laughed at that one also, calcav.

1/11/2009 9:48 pm (et) mobile_96: But they needed French to read some of their military courses?

1/11/2009 9:48 pm (et) Susansweet: True blue and it was reading French not speaking it that was important .

1/11/2009 9:48 pm (et) Babs: And to study Napoleon.

1/11/2009 9:48 pm (et) ejn: French was used because of France's military texts.

1/11/2009 9:48 pm (et) ole: Most of the good military books were in French.

1/11/2009 9:48 pm (et) calcav: I've read some on Harvard prior to the war. The schools were worlds apart.

1/11/2009 9:49 pm (et) Susansweet: Exactly ejn

1/11/2009 9:49 pm (et) ole: Strange that no one figured to translate them.

1/11/2009 9:49 pm (et) bluelady: Well that being said AMHG...I'm sure the regular universities did not march their student to every place they went or did they have demerits for unshined shoes or unclean gloves

1/11/2009 9:49 pm (et) Susansweet: Calcav when we read about the Harvard Brigade and what they studied and how they lived at Harvard it is really worlds apart all right.

1/11/2009 9:50 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Oh For the Sight of Our Native Land. - comments? At this point we should all raise our glasses to Benny Haven's.

1/11/2009 9:50 pm (et) mobile_96: If it was good enough for my dad, its good enough for the rest of us.

1/11/2009 9:50 pm (et) Susansweet: Love the Benny Haven tales.

1/11/2009 9:50 pm (et) bluelady: ah Benny Havens..I wonder for all the men that went there, how many were really kicked out

1/11/2009 9:50 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I wonder if the Harvard students looked down upon the West Point cadets.

1/11/2009 9:51 pm (et) mobile_96: Good old Benny Haven's, made life bearable for many over the years.

1/11/2009 9:51 pm (et) cwbksell: Clausewitz (On War) was German and Jomini (The Art of War) was French.

1/11/2009 9:51 pm (et) amhistoryguy: The discipline of West Point added a level of stress that served to "train" some for the upcoming war.

1/11/2009 9:51 pm (et) bluelady: Maybe they were able to say he was tutoring me in Math.

1/11/2009 9:51 pm (et) Babs: "So we'll sing our reminiscences of Benny Havens, oh!"

1/11/2009 9:51 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Did anyone NOT go to Benny Havens.

1/11/2009 9:52 pm (et) Susansweet: I loved the story of the change of where the buttons were on the pants .

1/11/2009 9:52 pm (et) ole: Clausewitz was a bit on the late side to be considered CW. Jomini was available.

1/11/2009 9:52 pm (et) bluelady: I bet Jackson was never there.

1/11/2009 9:52 pm (et) Susansweet: Jackson I bet never went.

1/11/2009 9:52 pm (et) cwbksell: Robert E. Lee never went to Benny Havens.

1/11/2009 9:52 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I was just thinking that.

1/11/2009 9:52 pm (et) ejn: Lee got zero demerits.

1/11/2009 9:52 pm (et) bluelady: And if it was there when Lee was there, I bet he was never there as well.

1/11/2009 9:53 pm (et) ole: I would imagine that if one did not go to Benny Haven's. He would have been shunned as a nerd.

1/11/2009 9:53 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: How on earth did Lee ever graduate with no demerits.

1/11/2009 9:53 pm (et) Susansweet: Jefferson Davis did go was almost kicked out of West Point for going too.

1/11/2009 9:53 pm (et) amhistoryguy: I found it interesting that even under stiff penalties for going to Haven's, they were willing to risk everything.

1/11/2009 9:53 pm (et) calcav: Jeff Davis went to Benny's, and fell down a bluff after.

1/11/2009 9:53 pm (et) Babs: Susan, Don't look at the buttons!

1/11/2009 9:53 pm (et) Susansweet: Awww gee Babs you are no fun.

1/11/2009 9:53 pm (et) amhistoryguy: FWIW - A “Hot Flip” as served by Benny Havens, was a drink of Ale or Cider (Rum could also be used) with eggs, sugar, and spices beaten in. The mixture, in a pitcher, had a red hot iron called a Flip Dog plunged in. It had to be removed at exactly the right time to give the drink a caramel like flavor.

1/11/2009 9:54 pm (et) Susansweet: You know they all went for the Buckwheat cakes .

1/11/2009 9:54 pm (et) Susansweet: yeah right !

1/11/2009 9:54 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: That actually sounds good!

1/11/2009 9:54 pm (et) bluelady: Went well with the pancakes

1/11/2009 9:55 pm (et) amhistoryguy: A trip to Benny Haven's was one of the things that added to the bonding experience these men had.

1/11/2009 9:55 pm (et) bluelady: And the math tutoring.

1/11/2009 9:55 pm (et) Susansweet: I wish there was a picture of them walking out of mess with food under their hats .

1/11/2009 9:55 pm (et) cwbksell: Clausewitz first edition was 1832. But it is true that Jomini was more often used due to French.

1/11/2009 9:55 pm (et) ole: Were these guys getting money from home? Benny wasn't giving away the hooch.

1/11/2009 9:55 pm (et) bluelady: Because no one else could identify with not only being there but why they went.

1/11/2009 9:56 pm (et) Babs: Did Jackson go to Benny's?

1/11/2009 9:56 pm (et) bluelady: They paid him in blankets that Benny knew where to sell.

1/11/2009 9:56 pm (et) Susansweet: Don't think he did.

1/11/2009 9:56 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: The book said they were taking blankets and gear to pay for food and Benny was selling the stuff for cash.

1/11/2009 9:57 pm (et) amhistoryguy: The men sometimes stole blankets and traded them to Benny. Seems he had a pretty good blanket business on the side.

1/11/2009 9:57 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: If Jackson did go to Benny's, it will come out in the book later.

1/11/2009 9:57 pm (et) bluelady: He went to the old fort.. Jackson that is.

1/11/2009 9:58 pm (et) calcav: Fourth chapter and Jackson has pulled his way up to 21st in Mathematics. Way to go Tom.

1/11/2009 9:58 pm (et) bluelady: Ft Putnam.

1/11/2009 9:59 pm (et) bluelady: And a promotion.

1/11/2009 9:59 pm (et) calcav: Now, if he can only learn to draw.

1/11/2009 9:59 pm (et) bluelady: Now he was not worried about mere survival.

1/11/2009 9:59 pm (et) bluelady: lol

1/11/2009 10:00 pm (et) Susansweet: Nobody mentioned that he even had some strange ways of sitting when he studied.

1/11/2009 10:00 pm (et) amhistoryguy: He does not strike me a one to get over confident though.

1/11/2009 10:00 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I spent a lot of mental energy in these chapters agonizing with Jackson and rooting for him. It was a sign of relief when he went up in rank.

1/11/2009 10:00 pm (et) Susansweet: Never needed a back on a chair.

1/11/2009 10:00 pm (et) bluelady: I can't imagine him having trouble with ethics...or was that the old term for physics?

1/11/2009 10:01 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Waugh mentions a disease, but I did not see where he was specific about WHAT disease of the internal organs.

1/11/2009 10:01 pm (et) bluelady: He was relieved when he wrote his sister about his rise in ranking

1/11/2009 10:01 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Still can't help comparing Jackson & Mac. Jackson struggled so much and Mac just breezed through.

1/11/2009 10:01 pm (et) Susansweet: Ethics at West Point was ethics having to do with war.

1/11/2009 10:01 pm (et) calcav: Wasn't physics known as natural religion?

1/11/2009 10:02 pm (et) bluelady: Didn't he have a digestive problem?

1/11/2009 10:02 pm (et) bluelady: Right to both of you now that I see it.

1/11/2009 10:02 pm (et) Susansweet: Seems that is what I have read before in Last in Class.

1/11/2009 10:02 pm (et) Susansweet: Yes he did.

1/11/2009 10:03 pm (et) bluelady: I wonder if it might have been colitis.

1/11/2009 10:03 pm (et) ole: Or, he thought he did.

1/11/2009 10:03 pm (et) bluelady: Since he was afraid to squeeze his organs.

1/11/2009 10:03 pm (et) Susansweet: It is funny that we know he ended up as a soldier but you are rooting for him as the story goes along.

1/11/2009 10:03 pm (et) amhistoryguy: True LF, but then, who got more out of West Point, Mac or Jackson - it would seem that Jackson did.

1/11/2009 10:03 pm (et) ole: Strikes me as a hypochondriac.

1/11/2009 10:03 pm (et) calcav: Does colitis make your left leg ache when you eat pepper?

1/11/2009 10:03 pm (et) bluelady: Hence causing pain.

1/11/2009 10:04 pm (et) Susansweet: Good strike Ole

1/11/2009 10:04 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: What about a hiatel (sp?) hernia. Or even an ulcer. He put enough pressure on himself.

1/11/2009 10:04 pm (et) ole: Strike one!

1/11/2009 10:04 pm (et) Susansweet: But that doesn't cause lower body pain

1/11/2009 10:05 pm (et) bluelady: I would say so but wouldn't a hypochondriac want to use illness as an excuse not to perform?

1/11/2009 10:05 pm (et) bluelady: The lower pain could have been a fluke after eating pepper...so he just didn't after that.

1/11/2009 10:06 pm (et) calcav: The guy was a gifted NUT. Eccentricity was not part of the West Point curriculum, but it sure produced its fair share.

1/11/2009 10:06 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: What was the lemon for?

1/11/2009 10:06 pm (et) ole: I have lower pain after eating hot chili, but it doesn't keep me away from it.

1/11/2009 10:06 pm (et) mobile_96: Or he simply had a cramp and figured it was due to pepper.

1/11/2009 10:06 pm (et) calcav: Scurvy.

1/11/2009 10:07 pm (et) bluelady: And with the diet they had there.. it is no wonder many more did not get sick...where were the vegies?

1/11/2009 10:07 pm (et) Susansweet: Like Edgar Allan Poe , Cal Cav?

1/11/2009 10:07 pm (et) mobile_96: No pain here from peppers.

1/11/2009 10:07 pm (et) bluelady: Right mobile.

1/11/2009 10:07 pm (et) ole: However, I do find some relaxation in raising an arm over my head for a few minutes.

1/11/2009 10:07 pm (et) Susansweet: Many people didn't eat veggies like we do today or should do today.

1/11/2009 10:08 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: The only meat they seemed to have was beef,

1/11/2009 10:08 pm (et) calcav: Are you sitting upright in your chair Ole?

1/11/2009 10:08 pm (et) Pvt Miles: His maladies don't seem to add up to a specific diagnosis.

1/11/2009 10:08 pm (et) bluelady: It must have been a sight watching him "keep in balance".

1/11/2009 10:08 pm (et) cwbksell: Potates are vegies. They had them every day.

1/11/2009 10:08 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Don't forget to alternate arms ole, maintaining even blood flow : )

1/11/2009 10:08 pm (et) ejn: Scurvy was well known, I'd be surprised if WP didn't serve them. Probably wasn't important to the book.

1/11/2009 10:08 pm (et) bluelady: But it was here at the Point that he started his book of Maxins...words to live by.

1/11/2009 10:09 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: One wonders how he could concentrate on a bettle with everything else he had to pay attention to physically.

1/11/2009 10:09 pm (et) calcav: Lincoln Fan...the Seven Days.

1/11/2009 10:09 pm (et) Babs: Irritable bowel Syndrome

1/11/2009 10:10 pm (et) bluelady: He did all those things out of habit...no need to concentrate on them.

1/11/2009 10:10 pm (et) bluelady: That explains a lot of things babs.

1/11/2009 10:11 pm (et) amhistoryguy: I believe we are as far along as we were assigned - Wrap it up for the night?

1/11/2009 10:11 pm (et) ole: Fruitcake.

1/11/2009 10:11 pm (et) cwbksell: Scurvy couldn't have been Jackson's problem with all the lemons he sucked on. Or, maybe that was later in life?

1/11/2009 10:11 pm (et) bluelady: How about the new secretary of war delaying their summer recess because he wanted to review them?

1/11/2009 10:11 pm (et) cwbksell: Fruitcake would help also.

1/11/2009 10:11 pm (et) Babs: Thank you, Dave, for taking the lead.

1/11/2009 10:12 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: I have one question. Did anyone notice that taps was mentioned three times in these chapters. Tap wasn't introduced until 1862. Is there another form of taps that was used earlier?

1/11/2009 10:12 pm (et) bluelady: And the new uniforms

1/11/2009 10:12 pm (et) Susansweet: Thanks for doing a good job Dave.

1/11/2009 10:12 pm (et) cwbksell: They played taps on the drum. It was a call for lights out.

1/11/2009 10:12 pm (et) amhistoryguy: Taps being evening retreat - not the tune used in 1862

1/11/2009 10:12 pm (et) Susansweet: I caught that too

1/11/2009 10:13 pm (et) ole: Yes. Thanks, Dave.

1/11/2009 10:13 pm (et) mobile_96: Believe taps was a different tune

1/11/2009 10:13 pm (et) Lincoln Fan: Was it called taps or was that tattoo.

1/11/2009 10:13 pm (et) calcav: Was it actually known as Taps at that time?

1/11/2009 10:13 pm (et) Susansweet: Then he did switch to saying tattoo.

1/11/2009 10:13 pm (et) ejn: Tattoo

1/11/2009 10:17 pm (et) Babs: Good night folks.

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